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Michel Pérusse




Location: Montreal
Joined: 12 Mar 2007

Posts: 30

PostPosted: Sat 09 Apr, 2011 11:53 am    Post subject: Grand bascinets?         Reply with quote

I would like some advices on bascinets I'm thinking on purchasing for my (very) late 14th to (very) early 15th (I am aiming 1390-1410) French kit. Although I wish for a certain amount of precision in my representation, historically speaking, I'm ready to make some concessions and so a good level of "plausibility" would be acceptable.

I was looking at, and hesitating between one of, these two pictured here:

https://picasaweb.google.com/101692441556602403365/GrandBascinet# They are from Buyans Armoury, an Ukrainian manufacturer.

Among the questions I have: What period are they from if any: do they resemble somewhat faithfully the representations in art or extant examples? Would that kind of helm be plausible for the period I'm aiming for? Wouldn't the type recreated here need a camail? What about the two different types of ocularia? Would the one with two "slits" be more suitable to an early representation? I've been told they don't really qualify as grand bascinets but simply bascinets with throat plates added: but what about their bulk, bascinets are more close-fitting, no? Don't they seem bulky?

I've looked around a lot here and elsewhere, and indeed I saw that most later period grand bascinets come down farther in front and back, I saw some for jousting, illuminations with some representations of bascinets that are resembling (example: http://molcat1.bl.uk/IllImages/BLCD%5Cbig/c571/c5711-03a.jpg), but I'm still uncertain and wondering about these types particularly...and about their dating: some grand bascinets, in museums, are dated 1400, some 1460, etc...what about bascinets with the throat plate reinforcement?

Thread discussing grand/great bascinets: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...t+bascinet

Here's a link to a thread on ArmourArchive linking to other similar recreations: http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewto...d+bascinet

So, basically: they are nice looking helms and I like the somewhat "originality" of them but do they fit for my kit or should I stick to the houndskull bascinet? I don't have pics of the rest of my armour, alas, but it it composed -until now- of a globose breastplate with stop-rib and 4-lames fauld (no pics, sorry) and of arms, simple spaulders, legs and greaves from Mercenary's Tailor (pics here: http://www.merctailor.com/catalog/images/14th%20cent%20arms.jpg, http://www.merctailor.com/catalog/images/legs.jpg, http://www.merctailor.com/catalog/images/Plain%20Espaliers.jpg).

Thank you in advance for your help, advices, opinions,

Cheers,

Michel
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Joel Scott




Location: Tennessee
Joined: 25 Mar 2011
Likes: 2 pages
Reading list: 4 books

Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sun 10 Apr, 2011 4:28 pm    Post subject: Early Great Bascinet         Reply with quote

Michel, you might like to look up a bascinet that is in the Musee de l'Armee, it's # is H24. It is a hounskull bascinet with a plate gorget in place of the aventail and it's dated at c.1400. Also go rent the movie "Joan of Arc" staring Ingred Bergman, an actor in this movie is wearing a copy of this bascinet.
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Michel Pérusse




Location: Montreal
Joined: 12 Mar 2007

Posts: 30

PostPosted: Mon 11 Apr, 2011 5:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Early Great Bascinet         Reply with quote

Joel Scott wrote:
Michel, you might like to look up a bascinet that is in the Musee de l'Armee, it's # is H24. It is a hounskull bascinet with a plate gorget in place of the aventail and it's dated at c.1400. Also go rent the movie "Joan of Arc" staring Ingred Bergman, an actor in this movie is wearing a copy of this bascinet.


Thank you for the references. About this bascinet H24 in the Musée de l'Armée: do you happen to have a picture of it you could share by any chance, please? I can't seem to find one.

Anybody else has more opinions, advices, informations, etc. on these bascinets reproductions or on bascinets with "throat plates" added in general? I also would be interested in seeing if there are extant examples -or contemporary depictions in art- resembling the Ukrainians reproductions?
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Scott Hrouda




Location: Minnesota, USA
Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Likes: 15 pages
Reading list: 87 books

Posts: 643

PostPosted: Mon 11 Apr, 2011 9:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The great bascinet reproduction you linked to that has open eye slits reminds me of an origional pictured in 2,500 Years of European Helmets by Howard Curtis. The great bascinet with bevor pictured on page 75 is of French make and is dated c. 1400. It resides in the Musee de L'Armee, Paris. This seems to fit the time and place you are interested in. The original has a deeper (but still rounded) snout, the bowl has a more pronounced ridge, and the visor seems to seat "inside" or behind the attached bevor plate somehow. Even considering these differences, it seems like a good choice. I suggest contacting the maker to see if these minor changes could be included. I do not have the skills to include the photo as I'm responding from my phone. If you're interested in the photo, PM me.

Regards,

Scott

...and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped. - Sir Bedevere
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Joel Scott




Location: Tennessee
Joined: 25 Mar 2011
Likes: 2 pages
Reading list: 4 books

Posts: 3

PostPosted: Mon 11 Apr, 2011 11:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Michel, there is a line drawing in profile of bascinet h.24 that is in the Musee de l'Armee on page 195 line 3 #74 of "European Armour 1066-1700 "by Claude Blaire. This is the only image I know of this helmet. It is simply a standard Italian form (pointed visor and crown) with front and back neck plates riveted on that reach the shoulders. The reproductions you are looking at seem too large, along with Scott's points about design improvements you should discuss helmet size with this armourer. I like your choice of helmets, not many great bacsinets are seen on historical reinactors. You will stand out.
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