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Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > Approriate Inscription for early Scottish Blade Reply to topic
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GG Osborne





Joined: 21 Mar 2006

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PostPosted: Wed 23 Mar, 2011 3:37 pm    Post subject: Approriate Inscription for early Scottish Blade         Reply with quote

A short while ago, I received a long anticipated package from ELJay Ericson with a quillioned, early Scottish basket hilt. A rather prosaic seach of original swords with similar basket hilts indicated that the most common blade seemed to be a broadsword blade with a central fuller. So what to do? Being a little cheap at present (most of you in the sword community know what i mean!), I remembered an old Hanwai broadsword blade hanging around in the back of my workshop. I think everyone is familiar with this blade. As I had customized the hilt rather extensively and mated it with a much-modified saber blade to make a Turkeish, the blade was sitting unused.

Okay, now to the point: I found the old Hanwai blade to have a nice temper so I proceeded to polish off the XX Adrea Farara XX marking and added a deep fuller on both sides of the blade extending from the extended ricasso about 2/3 of the length of the blade. The blade was 1.6 lbs when I started and is now 1.2 lbs, a notable difference in the hand.

I want to engrave or etch an inscription in the fuller. My prejudice would be the four crowned head mark of Johannes Wundes of Soligen but I have no artistic skills at at so that is pretty much a dead issue. Unless of course someone wants to come to my help! Happy

I don't want a variation of the ubiqutius "Andrea Farara" mark.

Does any one have suggestions? I'm open to a makers name or a Latin insciption but would like for it to have a providence to s Scottish blade. No dirk insciptions, please. Got plenty of those including some of the more, well,,coloful shall we say!

Any help from out there in cyberland?

"Those who live by the sword...will usually die with a huge, unpaid credit card balance!"
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Malcolm A




Location: Scotland, UK
Joined: 22 Mar 2005

Posts: 89

PostPosted: Wed 23 Mar, 2011 4:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello
How about this Latin phrase; it is the motto of The Black Watch Regiment [and two others] plus other groups.

Nemo me impune lacessit

It is often translated as

No one attacks me with impunity

Just an idea...
Cheers.
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A. Spanjer




Location: USA
Joined: 26 Apr 2009

Posts: 242

PostPosted: Wed 23 Mar, 2011 7:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A bit late period, but there's this sword.

http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/lot_detail...ID=2015500

The inscription says 'Prosperity to Schotland and no union', on the other side is says 'God Save King James the 8.'

Na sir 's na seachain an cath.
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GG Osborne





Joined: 21 Mar 2006

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PostPosted: Wed 23 Mar, 2011 8:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks, guys. Are there any other earlier inscriptions?
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Simon G.




Location: Lyons, France
Joined: 02 Jun 2008

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PostPosted: Thu 24 Mar, 2011 10:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

GG, apologies for answering your question with another question, but I would be really grateful if you'd explain how you added that fuller. It's something I've been looking to do myself...

Thanks in advance,

Simon
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Thu 24 Mar, 2011 11:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I know you're leaning towards doing something Scottish and yet want to avoid the typical Andrea Farara markings, but it might be an interesting deviation to stay with the theme of the sword being refitted to its blade during its working life. As such, it might be good to look at the various Solingen markings and go that direction. This would add a bit of diversity to your collection while staying in the same spirit as history would have provided and also give the piece a "story".
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GG Osborne





Joined: 21 Mar 2006

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Posts: 474

PostPosted: Thu 24 Mar, 2011 1:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Simon.....

I suppose there are many techniques for adding a fuller but here is mine.

First, take a marker and draw a straight line where you want the fuller to act as a guide. Next, take a small rat-tail file and chuck it up in a vice so that approximately 2" are help firmly in the vice. Take a hammer and hit the file a good sharp blow perpendicular to the jaws of the vice. This should break-off the file at the point where it is being held by the vice. Use the broken file to start scribing a line where you marked the blade. A broken file usually has a sharp end that works better than one finished at the factory. Short strokes, pulling foward 1/4" of so and the bak and forth until you start to feel a groove forming, then take the next 1/4" of so. Soon, you should get to a point where tiy can use an unbroken rat-tail file to start wideing and deepening the groove. Move up in file diameter size as you go. I also use a half-round bastard file to flaten out and widen the groove to keep it from ketting too round. Vince Evans told me that he uses sandpaper wrapped around a suitable size dowel rod for the same purpose but I use the dowel and sandpaper combination for finishing once I get the fuller to the right length and depth.

Sitting down and watching TV with a towel in my lap and a could of files nearby, I can do a 24" fuller in one evening but it may take several more evenings to get it as wide and deep as I'd ultimately like.

My wife calls my filing away "knitting"...anyway, good luck!

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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,803

PostPosted: Thu 24 Mar, 2011 5:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I am not experienced but I have read of John Lundemo's photo etching process.

http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?t=19927

The Wundes marks sound likes a great addition for a modern recreation and from what I have seen of Wundes marks, they are etched rather than stamped hot. At least this is very evident in a blade I have here. There is abetter resolution photo that I am attaching here and could probably find the site I pulled it from. With a printed photo, it could them be transfered via the photo etching process John describes but maybe a hurdle if there is already something on the blade. There was a Wundes thread from a few years ago.

Cheers

GC



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Last edited by Glen A Cleeton on Thu 24 Mar, 2011 9:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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GG Osborne





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PostPosted: Thu 24 Mar, 2011 7:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Glen,

Yeah, this is what I'm talking about. The large flat ricasso is a perfect place to etch the crowned heads and I would do "Johannes Wundes MeFicit in Soligen" in the fuller. I would really appreciate any artwork you could give me for a crowned head. Would really be neat!

Glenn

"Those who live by the sword...will usually die with a huge, unpaid credit card balance!"
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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,803

PostPosted: Thu 24 Mar, 2011 9:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The best plate of marks was shared to me in a thread elsewhere after I acquired the sabre.

http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?t=85575

Jonathan Hopkins then shared some pages from Bezdek that put some of them better in time.

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=13119

Mine has been ballparked by several including Forgeng of the Higgins Armory as mid 18th century. I had come across a few other earlier swords with the various marks but no other artwork/print aside from the plate Vic shared in the SFI thread. It zooms pretty well and could be enhanced a bit for printing. I'm trying to recall which drive and where I may have already done a b+w of that schiavona.. hmmm

Cheers

GC



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GG Osborne





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PostPosted: Fri 25 Mar, 2011 2:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Glen, I had to understand that the Johannes Wundes mark was a crowned head in left profile. These seem to be in right profile. Have you heard this?

Glenn

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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

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PostPosted: Fri 25 Mar, 2011 7:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, it has been a few years now since that look about for me and my memory not terrific after the stroke but in the myArmoury thread there are examples of the swords marked as Johannes facing both ways at times, much like the schiavona. I am also somewhat remembering the family tree itself with more than one Johannes working within the same half century or so. What I had come up with back then is pretty much all I had put to those two threads. I may have old bookmarks somewhere from genealogical files stashed somewhere but again, my head still just ain't right in recollections.

Cheers

GC
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