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Neil Schiff




Location: Las Vegas, NV
Joined: 03 Jun 2009

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PostPosted: Thu 10 Mar, 2011 8:27 pm    Post subject: Weapons & Armor from Schloss Burg         Reply with quote

Hello all,
Got back yesterday from 2 weeks in Europe. On Sunday, we went to Schloss Burg castle in Germany. While there, I took some pictures of original weapons and armor they had on display, and thought I'd share these. Unfortunately, the labels were all in German, and mostly too small to show up nicely in the pictures, or were not easy to get in the frame with the items.































Last edited by Neil Schiff on Thu 10 Mar, 2011 8:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Neil Schiff




Location: Las Vegas, NV
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Posts: 64

PostPosted: Thu 10 Mar, 2011 8:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote





























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Ryan Renfro




Location: Reno, NV
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PostPosted: Thu 10 Mar, 2011 10:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I like the type Z(?) pommel in the second to last pic. Thanks for sharing!

BTW, Schloss Burg translates as "Castle Castle", so Schloss Burg castle is "Castle Castle castle" - twice a tautology.
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Robert Weis




Location: Munich
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PostPosted: Fri 11 Mar, 2011 12:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sorry, but as a native German speaker, I must object. A "Schloss" is a palace which is not fortified in any way, while a "Burg" is a fortified castel. So the correct translation is "palace castle". Still wierd, since it is fortified.
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Thomas R.




Location: Germany
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PostPosted: Fri 11 Mar, 2011 1:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think it is a little bit more complicated, than Robert has pointed out. Usually no german would call a palace without a fortified wall a Burg (castle).These are Schlösser or a Schloss. But ever so often we are calling walled castles a Schloss, when itself has no name but is named after the place it was build. I think this dates back into the 19th century, when tourism started and every town wanted to advertise itself with a palace instead of a mere castle. It just sounds more impressive to say "Schloss" instead of "Burg". Where I live, we have both naming-schemes: The walled castles "Alsbacher Schloss", "Auerbacher Schloss" or "Heidelberger Schloss" are called a Schloss but have fortifications. The Burg Frankenstein instead is called after the family, which lived there (but it has high walls too).

Schloss Burg an der Wupper is also a fortified castle on a mountain top, named after the town nearby and not after the family (they were called Von Berg, which means "of mountain - the place where their castle stood) Funny thing is, I guess the town was once named after the castle "Burg" and then the castle itself was renamed after the town... And so on...

In short: There is no need to translate the name of "Burg" in this case. You would call it in englisch properly Castle Burg (at the Wupper).

I hope you could follow my trail of thoughts...
Happy
Thomas

http://maerenundlobebaeren.tumblr.com/
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Sander Marechal




Location: The Netherlands
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PostPosted: Fri 11 Mar, 2011 1:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nice pictures. But what's up with the two strange longswords in the second picture of the first post? They have strange, short fullers and no tip. Are they some sort of training/tournament swords?
The Knights Hospitaller: http://www.hospitaalridders.nl
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Markus Nußbaumer




Location: Germany
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PostPosted: Fri 11 Mar, 2011 2:16 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sander Marechal wrote:
Nice pictures. But what's up with the two strange longswords in the second picture of the first post? They have strange, short fullers and no tip. Are they some sort of training/tournament swords?


Hello Sander,

I guess those are executioner´s swords. Enlarging the image as much as possible I can just deciper the small note saying "Richtschwerter", unfortunately the date is not legible.

The pictures are very interesting. So many museums and castles still to visit....
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Sander Marechal




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PostPosted: Fri 11 Mar, 2011 3:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Markus Nußbaumer wrote:
I guess those are executioner´s swords. Enlarging the image as much as possible I can just deciper the small note saying "Richtschwerter", unfortunately the date is not legible.


Ah, yes. I thought it said "Ritterschwerter".

The Knights Hospitaller: http://www.hospitaalridders.nl
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Thomas R.




Location: Germany
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PostPosted: Fri 11 Mar, 2011 3:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Markus Nußbaumer wrote:
Sander Marechal wrote:
Nice pictures. But what's up with the two strange longswords in the second picture of the first post? They have strange, short fullers and no tip. Are they some sort of training/tournament swords?


Hello Sander,

I guess those are executioner´s swords. Enlarging the image as much as possible I can just deciper the small note saying "Richtschwerter", unfortunately the date is not legible.

The pictures are very interesting. So many museums and castles still to visit....


Jepp, definitely executioners swords (Richtschwerter).

http://maerenundlobebaeren.tumblr.com/
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Benjamin H. Abbott




Location: New Mexico
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PostPosted: Fri 11 Mar, 2011 5:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Neat Welsh hook. What an odd weapon. Thrusting with that thing looks as if it'd be tricky.
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Ryan Renfro




Location: Reno, NV
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PostPosted: Fri 11 Mar, 2011 5:38 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The primary definition of castle in English is a mediaeval fortification. However, like it or not the term is also used for many opulent, non-fortified residences such as Castle Howard, Neuschwanstein Castle, or even Hearst Castle in California. One could therefore translate both Burg and Schloss as castle.

Castle Burg is probably the best translation, but who could pass up the chance to call something Castle Castle Castle?
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Michal Spilka
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Location: Czech republic
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PostPosted: Fri 11 Mar, 2011 12:20 pm    Post subject: Schloss versus Burg         Reply with quote

Interesting discussion!

English language doesn´t know the difference between "schloss" and "burg", both mean "castle".
But in Europe we distinguish "schloss" from "burg" and have another term - "festung" (= fortress).
Burg is medieval fortified castle.
As the time went by, the tactics of battles changed. There was no need for fortification any more, and "die burgen" (castles) were rebuilded into more comfortable mansions for aristocracy - "schlosses". But still, some "schlosses" have also some elements of defences.

The term "festung" (fortress) can be "just a fortress" - or "festung" which consists of the whole town (whole town is "the the middle of the fortress").
Really fine fotress is Festung Königstein in Saxon, Germany (http://www.festung-koenigstein.de/index.php/welcome.html)

Another term is "palace", it´s used for a spectacular residence in the city.
It´s just complicated :-)

PS: I also think 2 swords on the picture mentioned above (pic. 2) are executioner sword.
The reason for "weird" tip is, that executioners tied the weight (plumb/ plummet - sorry don´t know english expression) through this tip (there used to be little holes in the tips), so that they had a better "whip/chop" (for better "separation of a head form a neck").

Cheers, Michal

Michal Spilka
Nielo - Sword
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Marc Bloom




Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Joined: 22 Feb 2011

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PostPosted: Fri 11 Mar, 2011 2:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Neil, thank you for sharing the pictures. I know how hard museums make photography.

Do you know what the little knife beside the bayonet in the 6th picture of the first group is?

Well, that sentence was the proud product of the American Public School system, let's try that again.

In the 6th picture of the first group there is a display with a plate, a plug bayonet and a little knife with a strange attachment. Do you remember what the knife was?
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Neil Schiff




Location: Las Vegas, NV
Joined: 03 Jun 2009

Posts: 64

PostPosted: Sat 12 Mar, 2011 8:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Marc Bloom wrote:
Neil, thank you for sharing the pictures. I know how hard museums make photography.

Do you know what the little knife beside the bayonet in the 6th picture of the first group is?

Well, that sentence was the proud product of the American Public School system, let's try that again.

In the 6th picture of the first group there is a display with a plate, a plug bayonet and a little knife with a strange attachment. Do you remember what the knife was?


Sorry, I have no idea. Everything was labeled in german and, as far as I could tell (I was visiting with some Germans), they were basically just "knife, 17th C", etc.
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Michal Spilka
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Location: Czech republic
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PostPosted: Sun 13 Mar, 2011 11:38 am    Post subject: hunting dining cutlery         Reply with quote

Knife on the 6th picture of the 1st group beside the bayonet looks like it could be a knife from hunting dining cutlery, the 17th C...sorry the photograph isn´t a better quality.
Michal Spilka
Nielo - Sword
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