Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > making your own clothing Reply to topic
This is a standard topic Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next 
Author Message
Nathan F




Location: ireland
Joined: 24 Dec 2008

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 141

PostPosted: Wed 02 Mar, 2011 4:31 pm    Post subject: making your own clothing         Reply with quote

hi all
after a recent case of kit shrinking i have decided its time i learn to make my own kit.question is where to start i nearly always get it wrong when i try to pattern and i need advice on sowing kits etc. really any advice on this stuff would be wonderful and any links on materials or suggestions for where to get them would be good too. the kit that i now have to replace is my hberno norse kit circa 900 but i want to make many other kits in the future all pree 1600. so any advice would be great.
thanks for the help.

for here starts war carrion birds sing, and grey wolves howl
View user's profile Send private message
Christopher Treichel




Location: Metro D.C.
Joined: 14 Jan 2010

Posts: 268

PostPosted: Wed 02 Mar, 2011 7:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, learning to sew is a start. Next researching proper fabrics... and period artifacts, paintings, woodcuts etc... all depends how authentic you want to get... you could at the extreme toss in weaving your own cloth for some of the early impressions. Or find your nose pressed up against the glass in Prague trying to see how a seam runs on Jagellons knickers. When you get into the 16th century things can get really complicated with some of the puff and slash and pluderhosen etc. Something that could help if you want to learn how make clothes from woodcuts or paintings would be to get some books from your library on making patterns... next thing you know you'll be shopping for sacrificial clothes at goodwill and covering teeshirts with ductape. Hey its fun and can be addicting.
View user's profile Send private message
Eric Hejdström




Location: Visby, Sweden
Joined: 13 Mar 2007

Posts: 184

PostPosted: Thu 03 Mar, 2011 3:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A small but none the less significant start:
http://www.42nd-dimension.com/NFPS/nfps_stitches.html
View user's profile Send private message
Johan Gemvik




Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: 10 Nov 2009

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 793

PostPosted: Thu 03 Mar, 2011 4:12 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It's important when attempting to interpret and re-create viking age clothing to know that what's acutally preserved in most cases are small scraps of cloth that scientists have interpreted in modern times. This means that some clothing may differ widely from what was actually worn back then and also differ in exact interpretation from various sources.
What we do know is how the fabric weave should look, mostly but not always Herringbone for wool tunics. We also know the more common materials used, which are wool, linen, silk and leather and buttons in cast metals such as silver and bronze as well as antler and bone. Bands were tablet woven mostly.
There are also some few examples of fairly well preserved clothing, but they're rare indeed.

For viking clothing, here are some links, but mostly for pants since I've copied and pasted off a pant discussion on another forum:

Viking tunics and other clothing (SCA source, East Kingdom), a simple start on the subject with less depth than I'd like but certainly decent for any re-enactment starter kit:
http://www.cs.vassar.edu/~capriest/viktunic.html

Note the armpit square panels specifically.

Viking age pants can be categorized as several prevailing styles. Named after the find location of course.

Thorsbjerg pants, which is more like a connected close fitting hose with feet than what we'd call normal pants. These pants are actually Roman iron age, not actual "Viking" but are commonly attributed to use in viking age also by scholars.

Gjessing pants, which is basically feet-less Thorsbjerg pants. These are actually viking age.
Note:These can be made with wide legs to make for baggy pants or close fitting but as baggy they'd be more of a variant of the Hedeby.

Hedeby pants, these are baggy pants. Some attribute these to steppe culture and some interpret them in very odd ways.

Damendorf pants, straight pants. Seems like another evolution of the Thorsbjerg.



Viking pants:
http://www.tjurslakter.nl/vikingbroeken.pdf

Explanation about viking pants and the actual finds:
http://www.shelaghlewins.com/reenactment/thor...iption.htm

Viking clothing (no pictures), from SCA source, Midrealm:
http://www.midrealm.org/starleafgate/Documents/Danish_Costume.pdf



In danish (sorry, but at least you can look at the pictures), more about viking pants:
http://www.tjurslakter.nl/vikingbroeken.pdf

Thorsbjerg and other pants, explanation of the finds, in English:
http://www.shelaghlewins.com/reenactment/thor...iption.htm

More in the subject of viking clothing, no pictures though (SCA site, also Midrealm):
http://www.midrealm.org/starleafgate/Documents/Danish_Costume.pdf



Also, for Norse culture post viking age, mostly 14th to 16th century but from backwaters so it may reflect earlier times, and some that are most likely a century or two older due to burial customs, there's a very good book available. Woven into the Earth: Textile finds in Norse Greenland

http://www.amazon.com/Woven-into-Earth-Textil.../877288935


"The Dwarf sees farther than the Giant when he has the giant's shoulder to mount on" -Coleridge


Last edited by Johan Gemvik on Thu 03 Mar, 2011 5:06 am; edited 5 times in total
View user's profile Send private message
Christian G. Cameron




Location: Toronto, Canada
Joined: 07 Dec 2009
Likes: 13 pages
Reading list: 4 books

Posts: 193

PostPosted: Thu 03 Mar, 2011 4:28 am    Post subject: sewing         Reply with quote

There's a book called "The Medieval Tailor's Assistant."

http://www.amazon.com/Medieval-Tailors-Assist...0896762394

It has all the patterns you need to make a fine kit. BUT what it really contains is a theory of tailoring and some very excellent instructions on making things FROM THE GROUND UP. The authenticity level is high, and there's no instant gratification--but the advice is superb and the book costs $30.

I just made my first medieval kit. Here it is.



Now, I have some experience sewing, but this was my first attempt to do Medieval...all hand sewn, and made by scrupulously following the patterns in the book. If you only use wool and linen, and if you only hand sew and never let the machine touch your work, this should be the result. Machine sewing actually goes too fast to correct error. Start with the needle. Get some movies you always wanted to see...

The best reason to make the clothes carefully is that you'll want to wear them hard--don't make a costume. Make CLOTHES. And make ALL the layers--shirt, braes, hose, jupon--before you try a cote or cloak--make yourself fromt he inside to the outside, because you'll be learning all the way. By the time you make a linen shirt and braes, you'll be a good basic sewer...

Make muslin versions of everything.

Get a friend to carefully pin fit everything so that your clothes fit perfectly--because they did. loose fit--in the 14th c.--is as wrong as leopard print lycra and spandex! Maybe more wrong--a famous reenactor once noted that the public could only really see silhouette, and that reenactors should strive to make sure that they looked "right" at a 100 meters before they worried about thread counting and fabric.

Finally, accouterments matter enormously. Shoes and hats are probably more important than any other part of your kit. Garters need to be well made and have period buckles. For most medieval periods, the belt is a defining item. And it needs a purse. Lace points need aigulettes. Etc, etc.

Hope that helps.

Christian G. Cameron

Qui plus fait, miex vault

www.hippeis.com
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Johan Gemvik




Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: 10 Nov 2009

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 793

PostPosted: Thu 03 Mar, 2011 4:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Christian, for a first try that is simply amazing!


Accoutrements do matter a great deal, turing a decent kit into a great looking kit.

For some bling bronze casts and even gilded, practially catalogued for various cutlures and ages, check out places like Mercia Sveiter and The Quet press. There are many others also, but these are my favorites.


Also, for making your own pouches and purses for medieval and renaissance, the book "Purses in Pieces" by Olaf Goubitzis is the best out there on the subject.
RIP Olaf, you're still sorely missed and I still treasure this book. For those who don't know, this is Olafs lifes work finished literally on his deathbed, for the benefit of all of us who love history recreation and reconstruction. I didn't know him personally but wish I had.

Here's a preview: www.oxbowbooks.com/pdfs/books/purses%20amerika.pdf

You can get the book from Oxbowbooks directly, or from Amazon and similar sites. I recommend directly from Oxbow. They probably have other titles to order at the same time also. Wink
http://www.oxbowbooks.com

"The Dwarf sees farther than the Giant when he has the giant's shoulder to mount on" -Coleridge
View user's profile Send private message
S. Jansone




Location: Latvia
Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Likes: 2 pages
Reading list: 2 books

Posts: 28

PostPosted: Thu 03 Mar, 2011 10:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

As a person, who has made some kits (actually not for Viking reenactors, but Latvian version) I would like to suggest to do some reading for start. Links mentioned above are great start, in my opinion. But I would suggest before you start to sew anything,, to read at least those links. This will help you to save some money and develop some skills before you start to make your kit. And more- if you have any questions- just ask Happy
have a good luck.
View user's profile Send private message
N Cioran




Location: Toronto
Joined: 21 Nov 2010

Posts: 72

PostPosted: Thu 03 Mar, 2011 11:11 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I agree with everything Christian said, and S Jansone too...

Know the period you want to do, research it carefully, and then start to build. You will save yourself an immense amount of time and money that way.

Enjoy!
Cole
View user's profile Send private message
Sam Gordon Campbell




Location: Australia.
Joined: 16 Nov 2008

Posts: 677

PostPosted: Thu 03 Mar, 2011 5:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

High Middle Ages 13th Century soft kit is the best! Razz
Member of Australia's Stoccata School of Defence since 2008.
Host of Crash Course HEMA.
Founder of The Van Dieman's Land Stage Gladiators.
View user's profile Send private message
Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Reading list: 5 books

Posts: 2,098

PostPosted: Fri 04 Mar, 2011 5:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Marc Carlson has put up this lovely site with some finds, most with good detail.

http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/cloth/bockhome.html

RPM
View user's profile Send private message
Elling Polden




Location: Bergen, Norway
Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Likes: 1 page

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,576

PostPosted: Fri 04 Mar, 2011 7:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sam Gordon Campbell wrote:
High Middle Ages 13th Century soft kit is the best! Razz


This is actually not far from the truth, if you are a beginner. The 13th c. has a very simple, almost minimalist aestetic, Even noblemen wear tunics without much embelishment, differing only in lenght from the common tunic.
Also, it is well documented, with a wealth of high quality illustrations.

The basic elements of western european mens wear changed little from the late roman empire until the 1350s: A linen under tunic, woolen over tunic and tight fitting pants or hose (worn by the franks from the 700s, at the least).
The fit and embelishment of the tunic varies a bit with time. As a late Viking age Scandinavian, you can perfectly well be wearing a tight fitted, knee length tunic and hose, event though the early/eastern style is currently in vouge with reenactors.

In any case, start out making a linen shirt, followed by a woolen tunic. You can then determine your period by choice of leg garments :P

"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Mikael Ranelius




Location: Sweden
Joined: 06 Mar 2007

Posts: 252

PostPosted: Fri 04 Mar, 2011 8:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

As a newbie you might want to start out with some reliable and decently accurate pattern, such as those available from Reconstructing History. In time, you'll get the knack of it and be able to create patterns of your own. But make sure to always return to the sources, I really can't stress the importance of that.

Quote:
Make muslin versions of everything.


I second that!
View user's profile Send private message
Nathan F




Location: ireland
Joined: 24 Dec 2008

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 141

PostPosted: Wed 09 Mar, 2011 12:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

thanks for the advice guys il try get hold of that book have been looking at it for sometime.
i have the research for various clothes types the two primary kits are a viking one circa 950 and a medieval one circa 1470 then expand from there.
two very different periods style wise but great advice so far. cloth is tricky to find in ireland but can pick it up at shows during summer. i must invest in some old cloth etc for first attempts at getting patterns right.
all information and hints are recieved very gratefully,

for here starts war carrion birds sing, and grey wolves howl
View user's profile Send private message
Elling Polden




Location: Bergen, Norway
Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Likes: 1 page

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,576

PostPosted: Wed 09 Mar, 2011 2:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Failing better offers, IKEA carries a linen fabric that is suited for medevial undergaments. They also have dirt cheap thin cotton which is perfect for trial and error testing.
http://www.ikea.com/ie/en/catalog/products/90159887

"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Nathan F




Location: ireland
Joined: 24 Dec 2008

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 141

PostPosted: Thu 10 Mar, 2011 11:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

nice idea i had a look there recently for linens some stuff close to it but either way cheap cloth for trial garments would suit it well.
for here starts war carrion birds sing, and grey wolves howl
View user's profile Send private message
Christian G. Cameron




Location: Toronto, Canada
Joined: 07 Dec 2009
Likes: 13 pages
Reading list: 4 books

Posts: 193

PostPosted: Thu 10 Mar, 2011 1:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan--good fabric is essential to good sewing. here's an online reenactor supplier of fabric. they are excellent and it's worth paying for shipping. i live IN the fabric district of Toronto and I STILL get most of my fine wools from this place.

http://www.wmboothdraper.com/

I'd take the Medieval tailor's Assistant over the RH patterns. The book offers a step by step process to understanding the whole construction system of Late medieval clothes; the patterns offer a way to make costumes that LOOK like the clothes. Some commercial patterns are ok, and some are terrible, but the worst sin of them is that people use them without fitting, and thus end up with clothes that look like cast offs or costumes.

Ok, I'll pipe down. The soap box--it was there!

Christian G. Cameron

Qui plus fait, miex vault

www.hippeis.com
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Johan Gemvik




Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: 10 Nov 2009

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 793

PostPosted: Thu 10 Mar, 2011 10:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan, here's a few tips to think about.
For high summer use linen is much cooler to wear than wool. On the other hand, as a first tunic, wool hides sewing flaws much better since it's stetchy.

For a used, rustic look for linen you need to wash it before sewing. This also makes it soft and gives it some stretch from minor shrinkage. Usually off the roll it's super stiff like canvas if it's thick and if thin it's still not stretchy. This all depends on what you use it for, but for tight fitting pants as some I linked to above some stretch makes it much more comfortable.

Also, I don't know how available they are locally for you, but if you live in Ireland I imagine you could get your hands on top quality irish wool fabric. The best wool I get over here is from Ireland, so you importing fabric from overseas seem excessive.
The best linen I've seen these days are from Estonia and Latvia, hand woven in the old way. And not overly expensive. That reminds me I have to get more of that for a friend of mine who promised to make me a new tunic in linen for the summer. Last summer I almost got heat stroke in my favorite wool clothing.

"The Dwarf sees farther than the Giant when he has the giant's shoulder to mount on" -Coleridge
View user's profile Send private message
Anders Kramer




Location: Denmark
Joined: 16 Feb 2006

Posts: 44

PostPosted: Fri 11 Mar, 2011 12:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Use wool for jackets, coats, dublets, hosen etc.
Use linnen for linings and undergarments etc.

When you use wool the most important rule is that you have to use 100% wool! Wool isolates your coretemperature and keeps you cool in the summer and warm in the winter. But this only happens if it is pure wool in the fabric.

Besides from that remember to wash your fabric before sewing, this minimizes the shrinkage in later washes, and removes the last remnants of dye which could miscolor your other clothes.

an other Golden rule (for recreating Medieval clothes) is to always use blesched (White) linnen when you use linnen. I know of no examples of the use og unbleached linnen.

Oh, and no colored linnens!
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Johan Gemvik




Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: 10 Nov 2009

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 793

PostPosted: Fri 11 Mar, 2011 5:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm not absolutely sure of this, but I think I've seen finds of colored linen somewhere. I'll see if I can dig up a link.
Perhaps it depends on what they were used for? Undergarments really seem a waste to dye so I doubt they'd have done that.
It may also be a question of time frame and geographic location if certain fabrics were dyed or not.

It's also much harder to dye linen than most other fabrics, so I expect most times they'd just bleach it. It would only have been dyed when it was absolutely necessary, say for an arming Surcoat or for really rich people wanting fine thread linen garments that still showed high status.

"The Dwarf sees farther than the Giant when he has the giant's shoulder to mount on" -Coleridge


Last edited by Johan Gemvik on Fri 11 Mar, 2011 6:05 am; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message
Chuck Russell




Location: WV
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Reading list: 46 books

Posts: 936

PostPosted: Fri 11 Mar, 2011 6:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

i have seen underware in period painting as different colors. BUT and I do say BUT I believe it was done so as to show something else rather than hey its colored panties. always the person wearing them was being tortured or put to the test due to some sort of sin etc.
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > making your own clothing
Page 1 of 3 Reply to topic
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum