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Tom King




Location: florida
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Sun 27 Feb, 2011 3:58 pm    Post subject: Cossack guns         Reply with quote

Hi, I'm attempting to put together a Cossack outfit from the first half of the 17th century and am in need of a historically accurate or accuratesque long pistol. I'm looking for functioning replicas in the standard repro. pistol price range (not some exact copy of a period piece from eastern Europe for $5000 or anything) http://www.militaryheritage.com/pistol5.htm I'm thinking about this, but it's english and pretty early century (although not Napoleonic which is good)

Thanks all
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Shahril Dzulkifli




Location: Malaysia
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
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Posts: 1,265

PostPosted: Wed 02 Mar, 2011 5:50 am    Post subject: Re: Cossack guns         Reply with quote

Tom, what you see below is an example of a pistol used by Cossacks. But forgive me, this is an authentic, not replica that you're looking for.

“You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength”

- Marcus Aurelius


Last edited by Shahril Dzulkifli on Mon 07 Mar, 2011 5:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Robert Weis




Location: Munich
Joined: 03 Mar 2011

Posts: 7

PostPosted: Fri 04 Mar, 2011 2:09 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think that a cossack carrying any kind of gun in the early 17th century would be highly unusual. If you look at the general equipment ,arms and armour of a cossack of this period, you will notice, that they were very similar to the ottoman light cavalary, while they had very little resemblance with central European military.
So the ranged weapon of choice would have been a short composite bow, which at that time was far superior to any pistols avaliable, regarding acuracy and rate of fire.

But if you insist on the idea of carrying a pistol, a rather wealthy cossack might have gotten one by trade and he could be carrying it . Russia had no notable production of guns at that time, and while the Turks had good artillerey and were pruducing their own matchlock muskets for their infantry, they did not make any pistols either.
So, in the early 17th century a pistol had to come from western Europe, most probably from Germany. So you can pick any German pistol model of that period, of which there are man reproductions around, and them customize it as a Cossack would probably have done. Add some mother of pearl inlays and a few extra silver mountings in the oriental style.
If you need inspiration regarding the decoration, there is a group of whellock guns that were made in Germany and redecorated in Istanbul for use of the palace guards.
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Jonathan Bridgstock




Location: Brisbane, Australia
Joined: 22 Feb 2011

Posts: 2

PostPosted: Fri 04 Mar, 2011 3:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What kind of Cossack and what date are you looking at?

Registered cossacks prior to the uprisings would be most likely to have a long matchlock or archery equipment, with higher ranking cossacks potentially having wheel lock pistols/carbines or early forms of flintlocks/doglocks either purchased or looted - bear in mind they had significant military contact with the ottoman empire and were damn good pirates.

I have seen some shortened matchlocks in "pistol" form for sale around the place, but I have seen no proof of them owned or used by Cossacks.

After the uprisings around 1648 and during "the deluge" period, there's a better chance of owning a wheel lock or doglock if you are portraying a Zaporozhian cossack, especially something like a stotnik (commander of 100) who would have been involved in the Battle of Korsuń in which the Poles were routed and the cossacks would have been able to loot roughly 4500-5000 fallen Poles .

Most hussars were armed with wheel lock pistols and/or carbines along with their sabres and lances, so I would expect some of them to be present in the Zaporozhian host. As the Poles were forced out of Ukraine, I would suggest that further booty would have been taken and that would have definitely included hunting and military firearms.

Bear in mind that Hussars were nobles, so they did have fancy kit - expect inlays on their weapons.. especially the wheel locks which were expensive and complex devices.
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Robert Weis




Location: Munich
Joined: 03 Mar 2011

Posts: 7

PostPosted: Fri 04 Mar, 2011 4:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, the target was the first half of the 17th century, so basically prior to the uprising and we were talking about pistols, not firearms in General. And the cossacks come from Ukraine and southern Russia. Hussars come from Hungary and are something different alltogether in my oppinion.
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Jean Henri Chandler




Location: New Orleans
Joined: 20 Nov 2006

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PostPosted: Fri 04 Mar, 2011 12:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Robert Weis wrote:
Well, the target was the first half of the 17th century, so basically prior to the uprising and we were talking about pistols, not firearms in General. And the cossacks come from Ukraine and southern Russia. Hussars come from Hungary and are something different alltogether in my oppinion.


Robert,

The term Hussar was also used to designate certain types of heavy and light cavalry during this period. The Poles were known for their 'winged Hussars' , heavy cavalry who carried both lance and pistol (as well as sometimes a recurve bow) and a sword or sometimes two swords (a saber and a kanzer or estoc).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_hussars

There were also 'light' hussars equipped more like the Hungarians.

The Zaparozhian Cossacks had close trade relations with Poland and Lithuania leading up to the uprising and they captured enough loot to afford weapons. Firearms were actually fairly ubiquitous. Their forces included both light and heavy cavalry and heavy infantry using Czech style 'Tabors' (war-wagons) as well as something like marines who fought raids from river boats. They were well known in this period for making riverine raids and even naval raids on the Black Sea in war-boats heavily armed with all manner of firearms, as well as heavier ordinnance like swivel guns.

The Don Cossacks were linked with Muscovy and the Russians certainly had no trouble getting their hands on large numbers of guns, they were used to conquer much of the land of the Tartars using firearms.

This is a famous, and I think pretty accurte (albiet 19th Century) depiction of Cossacks

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons...ssacks.jpg

This is another good painting of Cossacks fighting 'Tartars' (Siberian tribes) from river boats in Siberia, also a 19th Century painting but depicting events in 1580

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons...rmakom.jpg

J

System D'Armes Historical European fencing in New Orleans

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GG Osborne





Joined: 21 Mar 2006

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Posts: 487

PostPosted: Fri 04 Mar, 2011 4:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The most appropriate pistol would probably be an "Albanian" or Turkish so-called "rat-tail" snaphaunce.
"Those who live by the sword...will usually die with a huge, unpaid credit card balance!"
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Viktor Ivanov
Industry Professional



Location: Kiev, Ukraine
Joined: 24 Mar 2010

Posts: 26

PostPosted: Sat 05 Mar, 2011 6:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Some Zaporozhye Cossacks' pistols. Couldn't find details yet.



These pistols are most likely from Caucasus.
Might have been used by the cossacks as well.




An idea by GG Osbourn to take "an "Albanian" or Turkish so-called "rat-tail" snaphaunce" seems quite fair just as well as to take any period pistol of a land where the Cossacs raided or fought with.


Some pictures of cossacks (mostly Zaporozhye):
3 pages of various kinds of cossacks's units (I'll translate who is who if needed):

http://kampot.org.ua/photo-25/1

More pics, though mostly later ones:
http://picasaweb.google.com/apps.ukr/Cossacks#

Webshop for re-enactors - loads of armour, cast and leather stuff !
http://armourandcastings.com/
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Tom King




Location: florida
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Likes: 2 pages

Posts: 429

PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2014 8:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wow, blast from the past. Actually refound this due to looking up miquelet pistols for the very subject of this thread.

Ironically enough, I'm actually going to finally put together this here kit; I had most of the elements to begin with. I recently turned a deepeeka cavalry saber blade into a shaska (pics probably sometime next week, as well as the full kit) and was looking for historical documentation to slide this through my sash.


well looks like I have it.

Will post some pics in a few days-weeks of the soft kit, saber, the by knife I also quickly assembled, and the possible kinjal.
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Steven Janus




Location: Florida, USA
Joined: 12 Mar 2008

Posts: 185

PostPosted: Mon 03 Feb, 2014 3:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Cossack guns         Reply with quote

Tom King wrote:
Hi, I'm attempting to put together a Cossack outfit from the first half of the 17th century and am in need of a historically accurate or accuratesque long pistol. I'm looking for functioning replicas in the standard repro. pistol price range (not some exact copy of a period piece from eastern Europe for $5000 or anything) http://www.militaryheritage.com/pistol5.htm I'm thinking about this, but it's english and pretty early century (although not Napoleonic which is good)

Thanks all


That's funny Tom, I'm putting back together a 17th century Polish kit for Fare. Maybe we can re-enact scenes from With Fire and Sword Razz

http://www.polishhussarsupply.com/

They don't sell replica guns but they have Zupons, armor, and sabers. I've bought one of their sabers just recently, was rather impressed with the quality. It's about the same quality wise as Universal in regards to their budget sabers

*Edit

I just realized this thread was a phoenix, my bad Big Grin..

Newbie Sword collector
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Matt Leiby




Location: Pennsylvania
Joined: 04 Apr 2013

Posts: 7

PostPosted: Wed 05 Feb, 2014 7:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I know some guys doing mid to late 17th Century Cossack impressions with The Banner of Jasna Gora and they seem to prefer English Lock Pistols. These are readily available from both Middlesex Village and Veteran Arms. One of them has a very nice Wheel Lock Musket that he assembled from a kit himself and another has a Snaphaunce Musket. Pistols with both lock types would have been readily available to Eastern Europeans from the English, Germans, Italians and Spanish, though Cossacks would likely have obtained theirs through looting since these weapons were very expensive.
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