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Larry R




Location: Minneapolis
Joined: 08 May 2010
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Reading list: 11 books

Posts: 48

PostPosted: Wed 23 Feb, 2011 6:56 pm    Post subject: Leg bindings         Reply with quote

Hello all,

I would like to make a pair of winningas/ leg bindings. Is it as simple as cutting wool 3-4 inches wide and 9 or so feet long? A seamstress I know (ok my Mom Blush ) says the ends (sides) need to be stitched to avoid fraying. Should the sides be folded over then sewed, only stiched, or left to fray? I did a search and found some referances to buy, but not to make.

She is also making me a tunic, late 11th early 12 century. Prototype arrived today made from muslin, but if I can afford it the finished product will be linen, maybe dyed burgandy to go with green winningas? Any suggestions/help is appreciated.
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Hadrian Coffin
Industry Professional



Location: Oxford, England
Joined: 03 Apr 2008

Posts: 383

PostPosted: Wed 23 Feb, 2011 8:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello,
Winingas are much more complicated than cut cloth. In period they were woven to the correct width, no stitching. Unless you know how to weave fabric you will not be able to make these. There is a lady here http://wood-n-woven.com/ that does hand woven to width winingas. I have not seen any of her stuff in person, but she is the only one I know that does it. What period and location are the winingas supposed to be for?

For the tunic what is the pattern? I have seen more incorrect patterns then proper patterns so it is best to check before you make it. It would be best to make two. To keep things simple as I do not have time at the moment to write something lengthy, you will need an under one in un-dyed linen (bleached or un-bleached should be fine), and an outer one in wool. The colouring for the wool one will be based on your wealth.

I can help you more later if you can give more details on the exact time frame, location, and the place in society of your kit.

Cheers,
Hadrian

Historia magistra vitae est
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Mick Jarvis




Location: Australia
Joined: 18 Jul 2010

Posts: 76

PostPosted: Wed 23 Feb, 2011 8:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

if you are going to be cutting them, a simple whip stitch on the edges(no folding needed) will hold up alot better then you would expect
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Andrew W




Location: Florida, USA
Joined: 14 Oct 2010

Posts: 78

PostPosted: Wed 23 Feb, 2011 11:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I own a pair of the wood-n-woven winingas, and they're very well made, and worth the $65-75 she charges (worth more, in my opinion).

You can definitely make these yourself from a 9-12' long strip of fabric, though. Look for a wool herringbone. You will have to finish both the ends and the edges to prevent fraying. You don't want to fold the edges over, though, because that hem would look very different from the original (which was, as has been said above, woven to the proper width and thus didn't have to be finished on the edge). A whip stitch by hand would work, but it might still stand out - you want it to look like there is no finishing on the edge at all. Honestly (and I typically prefer to sew things by hand for accuracy), I find that using a blanket stitch on a machine in a thread that matches the fabric looks most like a natural selvage and is the least obvious cheat.
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Tim Jorgensen




Location: Fargo, ND
Joined: 10 Sep 2010
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Posts: 40

PostPosted: Thu 24 Feb, 2011 10:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

My first pair of winingas used strips of herringbone wool fabric that I cut diagonally so that they would stretch and not fray. I did not stitch the edge and the looked fine and functioned well, but they are not historically as accurate as the wood-n-woven ones.

So, I bought some from Laina at Wood-n-woven. I did some research using about 30 different samples from originals, and determined that oxblood and yellow would be a great look as well as accurate for a Danish persona. She offers those now, but most of her winingas are black woven with a color, such as my green and black ones in my photo.

Her's are maybe 1-2cm wider than most of the originals, but that's fine with me.



 Attachment: 116.2 KB
Winningas.jpg


Tim Jorgensen
Midwest Viking Festival Coordinator
Hjemkomst Center
http://www.hcscconline.org/secondarypages/mid...tival.html
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Tim Jorgensen




Location: Fargo, ND
Joined: 10 Sep 2010
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Posts: 40

PostPosted: Thu 24 Feb, 2011 11:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here are some research links about leg wraps, in case you are interested in further reading:

http://www.miklagard.nvg.org.au/articles/legwraps1.htm

http://www.miklagard.nvg.org.au/articles/legwraps2.htm

http://www.miklagard.nvg.org.au/articles/legwraps3.htm

You can see that orange, brown, black, yellow, and lichen were some of the colors.

Tim Jorgensen
Midwest Viking Festival Coordinator
Hjemkomst Center
http://www.hcscconline.org/secondarypages/mid...tival.html
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Larry R




Location: Minneapolis
Joined: 08 May 2010
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Reading list: 11 books

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PostPosted: Thu 24 Feb, 2011 4:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the info guys.

For now I think I'll stick with the wool cloth cut into strips and a side stitch. I can talk the seamstress into sewing, but weaving is another matter! Laughing Out Loud

Tim,

What are those "pins" in your pic? I assume their for fastening the wraps at the top? What are they made of?


Hadrain,

I reasearched the pattern and found a few links (thanks to myArmoury). I'll have to check on which one was used as I sent them all to the seamstress. I only reasearched free patterns because with my limited knowledge I didn't want to pay for an inaccurate pattern. I am interested in late 10th century early 11th and Norman (1080-1100). Not overly wealthy and for right know I would like just one tunic made out of linnen (although I do know I should have and under and outer).
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Hadrian Coffin
Industry Professional



Location: Oxford, England
Joined: 03 Apr 2008

Posts: 383

PostPosted: Thu 24 Feb, 2011 5:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
I am interested in late 10th century early 11th and Norman (1080-1100). Not overly wealthy and for right know I would like just one tunic made out of linnen (although I do know I should have and under and outer).


If you are set on having one tunic your best bet will be to go with a single wool one. Linen in general was a more expensive fabric. It is plausible to go without an undertunic if you are representing a less wealthy person. Very brightly coloured clothing tended to be an indication of wealth in this period... depending on the shade of your burgundy it is plausible, a more russet colour would be a bit better. Note the colouring of this horse from the Bayeux Tapestry.

Best,

Hadrian

Historia magistra vitae est
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Anders Kramer




Location: Denmark
Joined: 16 Feb 2006

Posts: 44

PostPosted: Thu 24 Feb, 2011 11:55 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Www.wollstoff.de Wells cheap ones as well.
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Robert Rootslane




Location: Estonia
Joined: 06 Aug 2007

Posts: 72

PostPosted: Fri 25 Feb, 2011 11:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Actually you can even make legbindings out of many peaces, if you dont have resourses to buy long strip on cloth. They will work just as well although you wont look so historically accurate. Many reenactors here in estonia wear them.

IMO the most important thing is that it would feel and work like it did in the old days, even if it looks a little different. We had alittle hike few weeks ago with stayng in the forest overnight wearing 12 cent. estonian clothes. The ones that were sewn together from peaces worked just as well as the real ones that some others had.

Also if you are not very rich, sewing the clothes yourself is a good idea Eek!. Its not vey difficult to learn and it will help you save money.
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Larry R




Location: Minneapolis
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PostPosted: Fri 25 Feb, 2011 4:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks all. I appreciate the input!
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E. Storesund





Joined: 10 Jan 2011

Posts: 101

PostPosted: Mon 21 Mar, 2011 10:25 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Anders Kramer wrote:
Www.wollstoff.de Wells cheap ones as well.


A shame they don't ship outside the EU, though. Me and a friend were definitely considering buying from them.
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Tim Jorgensen




Location: Fargo, ND
Joined: 10 Sep 2010
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Posts: 40

PostPosted: Mon 21 Mar, 2011 12:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

[quote="Larry R"]Thanks for the info guys.


Tim,

What are those "pins" in your pic? I assume their for fastening the wraps at the top? What are they made of?


The pins are actually needles. I make bone and antler needles, and I just stick them in the rolled up wraps to keep them from unrolling. I suppose pins could have been used, but all the evidence I've come across shows metal hooks were used to hold tension on the wraps or even hook into pants. I see you're in Minneapolis. We could meet up one of these days. -Tim[/b]
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Larry R




Location: Minneapolis
Joined: 08 May 2010
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Reading list: 11 books

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PostPosted: Mon 21 Mar, 2011 4:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I see you're in Minneapolis. We could meet up one of these days. -Tim[/b][/quote]

Sure, maybe at the fair.

Larry
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Peter O Zwart




Location: Ontario Canada
Joined: 28 Nov 2010

Posts: 69

PostPosted: Mon 21 Mar, 2011 5:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Very interesting thread thanks for the information this is something that I have been wondering about for a long time.
But I have a question; how historically unaccurate would fur leg wraps be?
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E. Storesund





Joined: 10 Jan 2011

Posts: 101

PostPosted: Tue 22 Mar, 2011 12:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Probably off the chart. I don't see why anybody would want to wear something like fur legwraps anyway. IMHO it looks awful.
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S. Jansone




Location: Latvia
Joined: 30 Dec 2009
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Reading list: 2 books

Posts: 28

PostPosted: Tue 22 Mar, 2011 8:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

For holding winingas I can suggest tablet woven bands- they are not very expensive (Ok, I have made a lot of them myself), but they are easier to get than specific hooks and another thing- if you are not representing very wealthy man, then you could easily go without hooks (see, they have not been -found in every grave)
(You can see two versions of winingas with tablet woven bands in pictures)


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Peter O Zwart




Location: Ontario Canada
Joined: 28 Nov 2010

Posts: 69

PostPosted: Tue 22 Mar, 2011 10:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

E. Storesund wrote:
Probably off the chart. I don't see why anybody would want to wear something like fur legwraps anyway. IMHO it looks awful.


That's kinda what I expected it's just that I have a few of skins lying around.

S. Jansone, Are those leather coves on the leg wraps on the guy on the right?
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S. Jansone




Location: Latvia
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PostPosted: Wed 23 Mar, 2011 1:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

No, he has high boots
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Larry R




Location: Minneapolis
Joined: 08 May 2010
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PostPosted: Wed 23 Mar, 2011 4:27 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

S. Jansone wrote:
For holding winingas I can suggest tablet woven bands- they are not very expensive (Ok, I have made a lot of them myself), but they are easier to get than specific hooks and another thing- if you are not representing very wealthy man, then you could easily go without hooks (see, they have not been -found in every grave)
(You can see two versions of winingas with tablet woven bands in pictures)




Thanks for the pictures. I like the style in the smaller one. Do you have any larger pictures of that style? I've seen some illustrations in some books, but nothing with any detail (that I remember). I was just going to experiment with just tucking the ends in place, but that looks pretty cool!
Thanks,
Larry
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