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Philip Montgomery




Location: Houston
Joined: 29 May 2008
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Posts: 83

PostPosted: Mon 14 Feb, 2011 8:06 am    Post subject: World War I-era German sword         Reply with quote

I am trying to help my friend George identify a sword given to him by his Grandfather. His grandfather fought in the German army in World War I against the Russians. George's grandfather lost a leg in the war. After the war he immigrated to the United States. George received this sword from his grandfather.

Unfortunately, all I had was my iPhone when I took the pictures. The sword is in very good shape. I tried to take pictures of the etching on the blade. The scene depicted is of a caisson. The soliders appear to have the German-style pointed helmets. I could not get all the writing on the blade, so I photographed what I could. The maker's mark is unreadable, so I apologize for the quality.

George would like any information you can provide.

Thanks.



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Philip Montgomery
~-----~
"A broken sword blade fwipping through the air like a scythe through rye does demand attention."
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Simon G.




Location: Lyons, France
Joined: 02 Jun 2008

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Posts: 238

PostPosted: Mon 14 Feb, 2011 8:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Perhaps you or your friend have already found this, but the markings on the blade seem to place it in the 3. ostpreußisches Feldartillerie Regiment (Third East Prussian Field Artillery Rgt.) which according to this rooster was part of the 41. Division, 8. Armee Oberkommando (8th Army) during WW1.

As you can see in the history of the 41. Division, it did indeed fight on the Eastern Front from 1914 to Feb. 1917, after that it was transferred to France.

Hope this helps !
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Philip Montgomery




Location: Houston
Joined: 29 May 2008
Likes: 2 pages

Posts: 83

PostPosted: Mon 14 Feb, 2011 11:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Simon G. wrote:
Perhaps you or your friend have already found this, but the markings on the blade seem to place it in the 3. ostpreußisches Feldartillerie Regiment (Third East Prussian Field Artillery Rgt.) which according to this rooster was part of the 41. Division, 8. Armee Oberkommando (8th Army) during WW1.

As you can see in the history of the 41. Division, it did indeed fight on the Eastern Front from 1914 to Feb. 1917, after that it was transferred to France.

Hope this helps !


Thanks Simon. That does help. George will be pleased to have that information. I am also looking for information about the sword as well. For example, who was the manufacturer, where was it manufactured. To whom was the sword issued if it was a regulation sword. It is an officer or enlisted man's weapon. I am guessing that because of the etching on the blade it is not a "weapon" and is more for dress. However, when I looked at it, the sword appeared to be of definite weapon quality.

Philip Montgomery
~-----~
"A broken sword blade fwipping through the air like a scythe through rye does demand attention."
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Jonathan Hopkins




PostPosted: Mon 14 Feb, 2011 11:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I am not sure what the designation is for this model, but I believe it is a field artillery sword for an NCO. The maker's marks under the langet are for Weyersberg Kirschbaum of Solingen.
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Simon G.




Location: Lyons, France
Joined: 02 Jun 2008

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Posts: 238

PostPosted: Mon 14 Feb, 2011 11:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
I am not sure what the designation is for this model, but I believe it is a field artillery sword for an NCO. The maker's marks under the langet are for Weyersberg Kirschbaum of Solingen.


Yes, it does look very much like a regular issue German NCO or officer sabre. I believe however that it is a cavalry sabre. See here : http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/ww-1-ge...bard-sword and http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/7081286

Seems like the same model. I have no idea if it was usual for Feldartillerie to be issued cavalry sabres though.

Regarding the decorations, these don't necessarily make this sword a "dress" sword. Rather, it's probably a regular issue weapon on which the owner (or a friend of the owner) had an artist add additional decoration - which wouldn't detract from this blade's ability to perform in the field.
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Philip Montgomery




Location: Houston
Joined: 29 May 2008
Likes: 2 pages

Posts: 83

PostPosted: Mon 14 Feb, 2011 11:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jonathan Hopkins wrote:
I am not sure what the designation is for this model, but I believe it is a field artillery sword for an NCO. The maker's marks under the langet are for Weyersberg Kirschbaum of Solingen.


Thanks Jonathon. Happy

Philip Montgomery
~-----~
"A broken sword blade fwipping through the air like a scythe through rye does demand attention."
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Jonathan Hopkins




PostPosted: Mon 14 Feb, 2011 12:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If it was a cavalry sword it would not say field artillery on the blade. Happy

SFI has several members who collect Imperial German swords. You may want to post your sword in the Antique & Military Swords section to get a greater range of information on the sword.

www.wwiidaggers.com has several examples of these artillery swords if you are interested in seeing others (in the section for Swords-Imperial and Weimar).
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Simon G.




Location: Lyons, France
Joined: 02 Jun 2008

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 238

PostPosted: Mon 14 Feb, 2011 12:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
If it was a cavalry sword it would not say field artillery on the blade.


Isn't it possible that it is a regulation issue cavalry sabre that a field artillery officer then had etched with decorations and the mention of his Feldartillerie regiment? That's what it looks like to me... After all I suppose it is entirely possible, especially during a war, for an officer to lay his hands on a blade not usually issued to the branch he serves in.

On the other hand, it is entirely possible that WW1 German cavalry and Feldartillerie units shared the same type of sabre. Or it may be a close variant of the cavalry versions I linked to, which look quite the same?
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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,835

PostPosted: Mon 14 Feb, 2011 3:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

http://www.deutsches-blankwaffenforum.de/gale...fen-1.html

http://zietenhusar.de/blankwaffen.html

A pattern used for infantry and artillery at that time but not a cavalry pattern despite its similarity to the m1811 Blüchersäbel and British 1796 light cavalry sword. Mounted artillery yes. Railroad duty yes. Etc and on. I would never regard a generic auction listing from Worthpoint and the other site listed as definitive but they can be a good source for images if someone knows what they are looking at. These artillery and infantry (or railroad) marked swords are often listed as cavalry simply because of the basic profile also seen in the hilt of the earlier patterns. The blankwaffen sites are a much better source even if like myself, am not exactly fluent in German. (Babel and other translators do work enough to get the gist of things). There is the M73 Ulanensäbel that is similar but why assume an a cavalry sword etched as artillery when the artillery swords are commonplace?

The Germania dealer's pages are fun too.

http://www.germaniainternational.com/


Cheers

GC
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Thomas Zehe




Location: Germany
Joined: 03 Oct 2011

Posts: 1

PostPosted: Mon 03 Oct, 2011 10:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A late answer, but...

Good morning (in Germany it's 7:25 AM Wink ),

this sword is for soldiers and NCO without Portepee. They bought it and used it outside from the service.

In German this sword called "Artillerie-Extrasäbel" (translated: artillery specialy sword). "Extra" because it was not carried in the service.

The Swordmaker is W.K &C, Weyersberg, Kirschbaum & Co.

Officers and NCO with portepee had a lion's head sword.

regards,
Thomas



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