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Tom Grant




Location: Boston MA
Joined: 09 Feb 2011

Posts: 2

PostPosted: Wed 09 Feb, 2011 9:51 am    Post subject: Sword ID help needed         Reply with quote

I have a family sword lacking history. I received it from my Grandfather and the story goes we got the sword from his grandfather. I would appreciate any information you could provide from the attached photos.
The sword’s hand etching reads
NO ME SAQUES SIN RAZON, SO ME ENBAINES SIN HONOR
"Draw me not without reason, sheath me not without honor"



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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,836

PostPosted: Wed 09 Feb, 2011 10:01 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This looks like it is an 18th century (Spanish?) blade that has been fitted up with a machete like handle. Would the soutwest of the U.S. or Mexico have any connection to your grandfather's grandfather's past?

What is the overall length of what you have here?

Others are more qualified to describe the slogan/motto on the blade as found. I don't have my handy book here to palce a date on its early uses but not an uncommon addition to blades used in many fashions of hilts.

Cheers

GC
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Malcolm A




Location: Scotland, UK
Joined: 22 Mar 2005

Posts: 89

PostPosted: Wed 09 Feb, 2011 10:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello Tom
I noticed that the picture in your post was almost identical to a sword I saw in a book I have, namely:

"The World Encyclopedia of Swords and Sabres"
Author; Harvey JS Withers
Publisher; Hermes House

On page 246 it shows basically the same sword but with a lighter colour grip.
It is listed as a German Sword c, 1700 and 31.7 inches long overall.
It has a horn grip and has a "plate" over the pommel area of the grip as opposed to a distinct pommel.

The description goes on to say that the inscription was a common motto on many European swords of the 18th and 19th centuries.

The original photograph used in the book I believe is attributed to the Hermann Historica Auctioneers, Munich - this may add some credibility to it being German in origin.

Hope this helps; sorry I can't scan the book article and post it here - no scanner!

Cheers,
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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,836

PostPosted: Wed 09 Feb, 2011 11:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here is a quick snapshot from Gilkerson's Boarders Away and it shows some of the Solingen blades with horn or bone grips. The thing is though that this one pictured above looks like an old cut down cavalry broadsword. Dimensions ovrall may help.



Forgive the thumb/knuckle shadow.

Cheers

GC
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Tom Grant




Location: Boston MA
Joined: 09 Feb 2011

Posts: 2

PostPosted: Wed 09 Feb, 2011 1:28 pm    Post subject: Thanks updated Pic         Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies. I apologize that I did not include the measurements. I was not sure if I would get any replies so this might explain my laziness over the lack of details. So pardon me now if I overload you with information. The new attachment has the sword’s measurements.
My Great Great Grandfather’s story, this includes the sword, is a mystery that has as many twists and turns as a snake in a hurry. I start researching my ancestry about a year ago. I have his Prussian Passport dated 1866 to America. After that, events, places, people and dates are in dispute. I have had long lost Mexican “relatives” contact me with strong words telling me of stories that my GGGfather left some of his children dead and dying in Mexico as he and his new stolen widow bride fled to the Untied States. A German, couple is writing a book about German immigrates populating the Yucatan Peninsula, told me my family was among those select few. Another so claimed relative from Arizona…. I am Jewish… Baptist…Protestant…
My mother was very close to this side of the family. She has several items passed down to her including the barrel top trunk that was used to come to America. The curious part she has many stories of her relatives from both sides of the family but no mention of Mexico only of Germany/Prussia and the family settling in the Syracuse, N.Y. area.
As for my part in the sword’s history, growing up the sword hung over my grandfather’s bar and always intrigued me. When I inquired about it’s past, I was told it was my Grandfather’s Grandfather’s sword he used in “some war.” I ask for the sword when my grandmother pasted away in 2000.
And for you Malcolm, do I have stories for you from the Scottish side of the tree.
Thanks again for everyone’s help but please no more angry long lost relatives. lol



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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,836

PostPosted: Wed 09 Feb, 2011 3:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the additional information Tom.

Is there anyway you could take another picture of the grip in a brighter/clearer light? Another straight down on the spine/back of the grip? The butt end of the grip? If we look at other blade with this inscription, it will usually appear further down the blade that what we see on this with the motto starting very near the grip. This along with the blade shape itself makes it seem to be it had been put together from a longer sword than it used to be.

Cheers

GC
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