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Simon G.




Location: Lyons, France
Joined: 02 Jun 2008

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PostPosted: Mon 07 Feb, 2011 10:17 pm    Post subject: Fencing with mitten gauntlets         Reply with quote

Hi all,

I'm thinking about using mitten gauntlets, as a possible solution to the everlasting quest for adequate sparring hand protections. So I was wondering if anyone around here had experience with that and what his or her feedback would be.

Specifically, I'm looking at Windlass' Gothic Mittens. Apparently Hal Siegel over at Therion Arms is satisfied with them. Does anyone here have used them for longsword sparring?

I might also choose to purchase somewhat pricier and probably better-fitting gauntlets than Windlass' "one size fits all" version, however.

Thanks in advance for your help,

Cheers !
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Christian G. Cameron




Location: Toronto, Canada
Joined: 07 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Tue 08 Feb, 2011 4:12 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Several of our folks use the Merc Tailor mitten, and it is excellent. Good protection and good mobility. I'd go witht he Merc Tailor product...
Christian G. Cameron

Qui plus fait, miex vault

www.hippeis.com
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Tom Kinder





Joined: 27 Nov 2008

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PostPosted: Tue 08 Feb, 2011 6:16 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gauntlets will either be something you love or something you hate. I've never had a set of really good ones (can't afford it) but I've had poor to sorta ok ones and the sorta ok ones actually allow me some decent movement. the bad ones really restricted me and were a constant source of aggravation. get the best gauntlets you possibly can if you want to use them, because the cheap stuff will make you want to throw them out.
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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Tue 08 Feb, 2011 6:59 am    Post subject: Re: Fencing with mitten gauntlets         Reply with quote

Simon G. wrote:
Specifically, I'm looking at Windlass' Gothic Mittens. Apparently Hal Siegel over at Therion Arms is satisfied with them. Does anyone here have used them for longsword sparring?


These are the most expensive hand puppets you will ever buy. That's about the only thing they are good for. The articulation is terrible, and you can't make a fist. I own a pair, and out of the box I couldn't hold a sword while wearing them. Peter Fuller did some work on them, and now I can at least grasp a sword, but I still can't make a fist. The wrist also has no lateral articulation. I can use them for harnisfechten, where I am relying on half-sword techniques, but not for standard blossfechten techniques where my wrists need to move so much more.

I've heard people say that these have improved... I don't believe them. Happy I've seen some of these in more recent times that were exactly like the ones I bought several years ago.

Virginia Academy of Fencing Historical Swordsmanship
--German Longsword & Italian Rapier in the DC Area--


"A despondent heart will always be defeated regardless of skill."
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Simon G.




Location: Lyons, France
Joined: 02 Jun 2008

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PostPosted: Tue 08 Feb, 2011 7:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
The articulation is terrible, and you can't make a fist. I own a pair, and out of the box I couldn't hold a sword while wearing them. Peter Fuller did some work on them, and now I can at least grasp a sword, but I still can't make a fist. The wrist also has no lateral articulation. I can use them for harnisfechten, where I am relying on half-sword techniques, but not for standard blossfechten techniques where my wrists need to move so much more.

Thanks Bill, I was rather afraid of that. I'll probably go with another maker - one of these talented Czech armorers, for instance.

Quote:

These are the most expensive hand puppets you will ever buy. That's about the only thing they are good for.

Laughing Out Loud
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Kel Rekuta




Location: Toronto, Canada
Joined: 10 Feb 2004
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PostPosted: Tue 08 Feb, 2011 8:47 am    Post subject: Re: Fencing with mitten gauntlets         Reply with quote

Bill Grandy wrote:


These are the most expensive hand puppets you will ever buy.


GENIUS! I am sooo stealing that!
Laughing Out Loud
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Tue 08 Feb, 2011 10:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Watch this and take special note starting at 1:24:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muSspi7Vr_8

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Mackenzie Cosens




Location: Vancouver Canada
Joined: 08 Aug 2007

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PostPosted: Tue 08 Feb, 2011 10:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sean Flynt wrote:
Watch this and take special note starting at 1:24:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muSspi7Vr_8


Sorry this is off topic but, That's a great post!.
I love it when he is looking at the gauntlet and says, "I've been making a mistake". There is nothing like looking at an extant to have that "Oh! that how its done moment".
Thanks for posting that.
mackenzie
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Jean Henri Chandler




Location: New Orleans
Joined: 20 Nov 2006

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PostPosted: Tue 08 Feb, 2011 11:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

We've made a few different types of mitten 'shells' out of plastic and leather for wearing over lacrosse gloves. We've had good luck with them. Pretty simple designs based on some drawings of mitten gauntlets from a book on armor. We have been using these with intensive sparring with nylon and steel with no problems, except that the plastic shells were damaged twice by steel feders (very thin hanweis). Henry used these in the Swordfish tournament in Sweden Oct 2010 fighting with steel with no problems.

Here are some photos, you can see how they are attached to the glove in a simple way with shoelaces. Basically they are tied to the glove in three spots, around two of the fingers, around the thumb and across the hand (you can kind of see this in one of the photos above). You don't really notice it that much. You can still use your fingers inside the glove (under the shell if you will).














J

System D'Armes Historical European fencing in New Orleans

Essays on Hroarr

Introducing the Codex Guide to the Medieval Baltic
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Mikko Kuusirati




Location: Finland
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PostPosted: Wed 09 Feb, 2011 2:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean, I know this is off-topic, but I've been curious about those synthetic wasters shown in your last four photos. They certainly look good, but how would you judge them in practice?
The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
Rush in and die, dogs -- I was a man before I was a king.
-- R. E. Howard, The Road of Kings
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Simon G.




Location: Lyons, France
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PostPosted: Wed 09 Feb, 2011 3:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mikko Kuusirati wrote:
Jean, I know this is off-topic, but I've been curious about those synthetic wasters shown in your last four photos. They certainly look good, but how would you judge them in practice?


Mikko, these are Rawlings synthetic swords. EDIT : I mean those in the photos that don't have any duct-tape on them ; I don't know what the duct-taped one is.

There are a lot of reviews of them on the internet, see for instance on SFI : http://swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100064

I gather they are generally considered good if a bit "whippy", for some folks and some uses, at least regarding longswords. "Pro" blades, that will be stiffer, will soon be available along the earlier, "whippier" blades (that are safer e.g. for sparring). Me, I'll soon be ordering a single-hander from Rawlings.
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Mikko Kuusirati




Location: Finland
Joined: 16 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: Thu 10 Feb, 2011 3:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Simon G. wrote:
Mikko Kuusirati wrote:
Jean, I know this is off-topic, but I've been curious about those synthetic wasters shown in your last four photos. They certainly look good, but how would you judge them in practice?


Mikko, these are Rawlings synthetic swords. EDIT : I mean those in the photos that don't have any duct-tape on them ; I don't know what the duct-taped one is.

There are a lot of reviews of them on the internet, see for instance on SFI : http://swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100064

I gather they are generally considered good if a bit "whippy", for some folks and some uses, at least regarding longswords. "Pro" blades, that will be stiffer, will soon be available along the earlier, "whippier" blades (that are safer e.g. for sparring). Me, I'll soon be ordering a single-hander from Rawlings.

Yeah, Dave Rawlings of Boar's Tooth, I know. I'm just curious to hear first-hand about hands-on experience with them because a local retailer has started carrying them recently and they look interesting, and the sort of modular construction would seem to offer certain logistical advantages over wooden wasters.

The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
Rush in and die, dogs -- I was a man before I was a king.
-- R. E. Howard, The Road of Kings
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Jean Henri Chandler




Location: New Orleans
Joined: 20 Nov 2006

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PostPosted: Fri 18 Feb, 2011 12:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yeah those are the knight-shop / rawlings swords.

The first batch of the rawlings / knight shop swords were a bit too whippy for us but there is a new 'pro-line' version available, (which you can also get with steel crossguards), which is apparently made of the same type of cast nylon that the Swedes used for their famous Pentti simulators (which are excellent). The pro-line are available from purpleheart armory.

The other ones (with the duct tape) are some crude ones we made ourselves just for our own club.

J

System D'Armes Historical European fencing in New Orleans

Essays on Hroarr

Introducing the Codex Guide to the Medieval Baltic
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