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Sander Marechal




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PostPosted: Wed 02 Feb, 2011 12:26 pm    Post subject: What sword for 1066-1250 (if any)?         Reply with quote

I'm in need of a single handed reenactment sword for my role in our Knights Hospitaller group. We are set in approximately 1250. But, I am also planning to go to the Battle of Hastings reenactment in 2012. If at all possible, I would prefer to just buy one sword that I can use for both events so I can spend more money on other items (soft kit, maille, helmets, etcetera).

Is there any kind/type of sword that would be suitable for both periods? I quite like the look of a long, narrow cross guard and a brazilnut pommel, but I think that's way too old fashioned for 1250.

Thanks in advance!

The Knights Hospitaller: http://www.hospitaalridders.nl
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J.D. Crawford




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PostPosted: Wed 02 Feb, 2011 1:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello Sander,

I think an Xa blade with a straight cross and a simple convex beveled wheel pommel was both popular and very hard to date between the period of 1066 and 1250. A good example is the Albion Templar.

-JD
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A. Heidalen Skog




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PostPosted: Wed 02 Feb, 2011 1:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I would go for a Gaddhjalt type sword myself.
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Sander Marechal




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PostPosted: Wed 02 Feb, 2011 1:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks. I just found that KoA has the Hanwei Tinker Norman sword on sale for $159 (link). Would that be suitable? It's named a "norman" sword, but the shape also reminds me a lot of the Sword of St. Maurice with is very much 1250.
The Knights Hospitaller: http://www.hospitaalridders.nl
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Roger Hooper




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PostPosted: Wed 02 Feb, 2011 2:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The Hanwei/Tinker Early Medieval Sword - http://kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=SH2405 - though a type XII, looks more generic than the Tinker Norman
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Thomas R.




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PostPosted: Wed 02 Feb, 2011 2:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Sander,

brazilnut-pommels are a real beauty. Even though such a sword would be considered oldfashioned in 1250, I would go with it, if you are heading for hastings. Better a too old sword, than a sword type which didn't exist yet at the timeframe you like to portrait. If you are looking for a sword, you can put to good use in a fight, have a look at Jiri Krondaks blades for show combat. You can choose from pommels and guards as you like. Mine (also a brazilnut) has seen now about nine summers and is still in good shape.

http://fabri-armorum.com/english/

Best regards,
Thomas

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Jeff A. Arbogast





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PostPosted: Wed 02 Feb, 2011 3:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I like the Albion Norman myself. Perfect for 1066 or a century or two later. Simple and elegant with a nice wheel pommel and a curved guard.
A man's nose is his castle-and his finger is a mighty sword that he may wield UNHINDERED!
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Simon G.




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PostPosted: Wed 02 Feb, 2011 4:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
I like the Albion Norman myself. Perfect for 1066 or a century or two later. Simple and elegant with a nice wheel pommel and a curved guard.

Problem is Albion Next Gens aren't much suited to reenactment... Not only are they sharp, can you imagine going and whacking your Albion in a wild Hastings melee? Cry Wink

PS : I see Albion now has a Skirmish line for reenactment... Interesting, this had somehow escaped my attention (I prefer sharpies anyway). No sword suitable for 1066-1250 among these, though.
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Scott Woodruff





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PostPosted: Thu 03 Feb, 2011 9:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I recently bought a Hanwei practical Norman for reinactment. It was a good deal for the price (dirt cheap), but it does have some issues (uncomfortable pommel, very poor harmonics.) I would suggest the H-T early medieval sword over the practical Norman, the grip looks more comfortable and the blade taper looks like it would have better harmonics than the practical Norman. I will be going to a training session with The Vikings, Vinland at Estrella war this month, so I will have a chance to handle a variety of reinacting blunts and get a little more perspective.
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Ken Speed





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PostPosted: Thu 03 Feb, 2011 10:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think you'd be hard pressed to find something as suitable or as inexpensive at the Hanwei Tinker Norman sword. A bomus is that it is easily customized if you feel creative.

I have to agree with Mr Skog too inasmuch as if I could get a good deal on a Gaddhjalt I'd jump on it in a New York minute!
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Harry J. Fletcher




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PostPosted: Thu 03 Feb, 2011 3:41 pm    Post subject: recommend type X         Reply with quote

Hello Sander:

I would recommend a type X which spans a period from about 1000AD until about 1150 but you can stretch that 1200 AD without a problem IMHO. Albion makes a very good sword but the Hanwei line is very affordable, servicable, and also fits the period. Keep your finger in the dike...LOL.

Regards,

Harry

To Study The Edge of History
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Sander Marechal




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PostPosted: Thu 03 Feb, 2011 3:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the advice so far. The HT Early Medieval sword looks nice as well, but I fear that it's type 6 guard won't fly at Hastings. It's very 13th century I think. Do tell me if I'm wrong though. Oakeshott typology isn't my forte.

To those recommending Albions: I'd love to own own, but they are out of my price range. And they're sharp, so not suited for reenactment.

Scott Woodruff wrote:

I recently bought a Hanwei practical Norman for reinactment. It was a good deal for the price (dirt cheap), but it does have some issues (uncomfortable pommel, very poor harmonics.)


Practical norman? Do you mean this sword? Or the Tinker Norman (this sword)?

The Knights Hospitaller: http://www.hospitaalridders.nl
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Roger Hooper




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PostPosted: Thu 03 Feb, 2011 5:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I don't think anyone has mentioned Del Tins. They're often used for re-enactment, even though their blades are unsharpened rather than blunted. DT2121, DT2123, and DT2131 are all in stock over at KOA, and I believe are appropriate for botlh 1066 and 1250. DT2121 especially represents the standard medieval sword.
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Scott Woodruff





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PostPosted: Thu 03 Feb, 2011 5:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes, I meant the practical norman, not the H-T norman. As to Del Tins, I am not sure if they meet the 3mm edge rule that many reinactment groups use.
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Jeremy V. Krause




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PostPosted: Thu 03 Feb, 2011 5:55 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Roger Hooper wrote:
I don't think anyone has mentioned Del Tins. They're often used for re-enactment, even though their blades are unsharpened rather than blunted. DT2121, DT2123, and DT2131 are all in stock over at KOA, and I believe are appropriate for botlh 1066 and 1250. DT2121 especially represents the standard medieval sword.



Yeah, I'm with Roger here on the 2121. It is generic enough that it doesn't exactly suit either time but has has features that give it a more broadly dateable character where it wouldn't look totally out of character in either scenario. The pommel puts it a bit further out than 1066 but I think it's a good bet.

You would be really hard-pressed to find any sword that would be soundly at home given these date points.

Del tins are quality swords in their own right as well. I have the 2121 in fact. It feels similar to the Norman but a bit less refined. The grip is also on the thick side.
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Roger Hooper




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PostPosted: Fri 04 Feb, 2011 10:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

How late were Brazil Nut Pommels used?

I noticed that a number of Del Tin models have A or B pommels and are listed as repros of 13th century swords.

Look at this thread which indicates that these pommels were still around in the 13th century.

So, if you wanted to get the blunt Hanwei/Tinker Norman, you could make a good case for it being OK for the year, 1250.

Also, there is a big sale on Hanwei Tinkers going on now at KOA.

Does anyone know how thick the edges are for Hanwei/Tinker blunts? Do they meet that 3mm edge rule that Scott mentioned?
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Sander Marechal




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PostPosted: Fri 04 Feb, 2011 3:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The Vikings (who organise The Battle of Hastings) only require a 2mm egde, so that should be good. But they have quite strict rules about the tip radius and the Del Tins are all way too pointy to pass inspection at Hastings. I'm taking the perfect timing of the KoA sale as a sign of the sword gods, so I'm going to order a H/T Norman.
The Knights Hospitaller: http://www.hospitaalridders.nl
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Jeff A. Arbogast





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PostPosted: Fri 04 Feb, 2011 4:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes you're right, I forgot about the re-enactment part when I suggested the Albion Norman. Sorry about that. It would indeed inflict some most realistic wounds that would not be appreciated. But something along those lines appearance-wise would work well for you I think. Kind of a generic design that would cover a broad area of history. That's why I liked it.
A man's nose is his castle-and his finger is a mighty sword that he may wield UNHINDERED!
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Robin Smith




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PostPosted: Fri 04 Feb, 2011 7:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I use a Hanwei Tinker Norman for my Norman Kit now. I'm not sure it would be great for a 1250 impression though...
A furore Normannorum libera nos, Domine
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Sander Marechal




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PostPosted: Tue 08 Feb, 2011 1:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I just got a note that my KoA order shipped. I ended up ordering both a Norman and an Early Single Hand. They were cheap enough now during the sale and my girlfriend can use the second sword for I33.practice.
The Knights Hospitaller: http://www.hospitaalridders.nl
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