Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > von Prankh Helm Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Matt Lukes
Industry Professional



Location: Vancouver, Canada
Joined: 26 Jun 2010

Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sat 08 Jan, 2011 7:13 pm    Post subject: von Prankh Helm         Reply with quote

Hi all,

I've been giving making a recreation of the von Prankh helm a go and while I have most everything I need, the one piece of information that's missing, that I really hope someone here can help me with, is the pattern of the ventilation holes that surely must be on the left side under the tournament reinforcement plate. Obviously it's not a detail that can be seen in even the best photos taken at the museum, and the most I've been able to find is agreement that there must be holes there- for the obvious reason that it'd be hell to breathe in the thing if there weren't, and then more circumstantially that the extra plate is set a distance away from the faceplate, meaning there is room left intentionally.

I really take my recreations seriously and just hate to get any detail wrong, even one that's not visible like this so if anyone can help, it'd be greatly appreciated.

Thanks much.

Matt

Ohhhh- pillage THEN burn...


Last edited by Matt Lukes on Sun 09 Jan, 2011 7:14 am; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Mackenzie Cosens




Location: Vancouver Canada
Joined: 08 Aug 2007

Posts: 238

PostPosted: Sat 08 Jan, 2011 10:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Doug Strong of Talbot's Fine Accessories has a pattern for the von Prankh helm
http://talbotsfineaccessories.com/books/metalwork.html
Mr Strong is very knowledgeable and his pattern does not show any breaths. Perhaps contacting Mr. Strong would help. BTW I recommend Mr. Strong's patterns and they are available at a very fair price.

Mackenzie
View user's profile Send private message
Matt Lukes
Industry Professional



Location: Vancouver, Canada
Joined: 26 Jun 2010

Posts: 7

PostPosted: Tue 11 Jan, 2011 10:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the suggestion Mackenzie- although if his patterns don't show any holes, I suspect he's just used the exterior photos we've all seen; when I suggested there simply must be some ventilation, that wasn't a theoretical- I've mostly completed mine and it's truly difficult to breathe in it as-is Laughing Out Loud I'll give him a shot anyway just in case...
Ohhhh- pillage THEN burn...
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Mackenzie Cosens




Location: Vancouver Canada
Joined: 08 Aug 2007

Posts: 238

PostPosted: Tue 11 Jan, 2011 2:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi,
I do 14C reenactment and I have been thinking about reproducing the Von Prankh or similar helmet so I contacted Dr. Strong to see if he had more information about the Von Prankh helm and with his permission he is his reply:


Quote:
There are no breaths in the faceplate. There are holes in the helmet for lining and crest but none for breathing. Here is the calog entry for the helm in my forthcoming book Surviving Examples of Early Plate Armour 1300-1430. Volume I: Head Defenses. This book will be released in 2011.





--A great helm constructed of five plates. The deck plate is dished and crested. It is riveted inside of the top plates. This helm is strongly creased vertically at both the front and back. The bottom back edge is turned and slightly flared. The edges of the plates are strongly beveled where they overlap. There are three pairs of holes for attachment of the lining. There is one pair at each side seam and one pair at the back crease. These are at the level of the top of the ocularium. There are two holes at the bottom back of the lower plate. These holes may well have originally been made for a strap to secure the helm to the back plate such as can be seen on several effigies of the period. There are six rivets placed just above the ocularium these presumably were designed to secure the lining to the helm. This helm is displayed with a gilded crest in the form of a pair of molded leather horns. This crest dates from the late 15th century and is not original to the helm. This helm is fitted with a reinforce plate to protect the front left of the helm. The presence of this reinforce indicates this helm may have been designed for use in the joust as opposed to being designed for battle. This plate is fixed to the helm with four rivets, two at each corner of the plate. F. M. Kelly tells us the original leather lining of this plate that prevented direct contact with the front of the helm survives on this plate. (p. 10) The faceplate has an integral ocular divider which projects upward. However, because of the reinforcing plate this ocular divider is secured on the inside of the upper section as opposed to the outside as in most other surviving examples. If the two helms that survive with reinforce plates can be seen as representative of a type then this would be the norm.


I hope you find this useful : )

Mackenzie
View user's profile Send private message
Matt Lukes
Industry Professional



Location: Vancouver, Canada
Joined: 26 Jun 2010

Posts: 7

PostPosted: Tue 11 Jan, 2011 2:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

So that's leather between the face and reinforcment plates? I wondered what it was- strange... since the helmet wasn't buried or anything, I couldn't see dirt or other material simply accumulating in the gap, but had no idea what it could've been. It must have been some kind of shock-absorber then or the extra plate could've been fitted directly. Very interesting! Well it certainly means that there couldn't have been any ventilation holes- I'm surprised. I'd say that even if the reinforcement plate weren't enough evidence that this was a tournament helmet and not a war helmet, the lack of ventilation would surely clinch it- in a joust it'd only be worn for a very short time (a minute or two?), so one could manage... Thanks Mackenzie, I really appreicate the help!
Ohhhh- pillage THEN burn...
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > von Prankh Helm
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum