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Stephen Wheatley




Location: DORSET ENGLAND
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PostPosted: Tue 04 Jan, 2011 9:40 am    Post subject: Sir Thomas Faifax portrait - basket hilt         Reply with quote

I've been puzzling over the sword in this portrait for some years now - it could be a stylised early basket-hilt or a 'Sinclair'. From the engraving its also pretty unclear where Sir Thos' hand would go! is the sword back to front? Is it the artistic licence of the engraver, or has anyone seen a swept guard like this one?

The sword pictured is closest to the basket-hilt in form, projecting quillons etc, but seems to have beem mated with some swept-hilt elements. If no-one's seen anything like it then I'm filing the portrait under 'drunk artist'.



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Stephen Wheatley
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Tue 04 Jan, 2011 9:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It looks like a rapier, to me.

Is there a knuckle-bow? It's hard to make out. I guess it's behind the grip in perspective.

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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Tue 04 Jan, 2011 10:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

My impression has always been that it's a badly-rendered rapier.
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Craig Shackleton




Location: Ottawa, Canada
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PostPosted: Tue 04 Jan, 2011 10:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I also think it's a rapier, and that the knucklebow is down. the upper bars of the swept hilt look like they spiral around the grip, but I suspect that is a perspective issue and that they are intertwined on the near side of the grip. I think the guard is a little like this one:

http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/photo/827.html

but not quite. Here is another, which appears to be left handed:

http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/photo/866.html

I know I've seen modern repros like this where the outside of the guard sweeps more upward rather than the more common downward, thus covering more of the back of the hand.

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Jack W. Englund




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PostPosted: Tue 04 Jan, 2011 12:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Sir Thomas Faifax portrait - basket hilt         Reply with quote

Stephen Wheatley wrote:


The sword pictured is closest to the basket-hilt in form, projecting quillons etc, swept-hilt elements..


Do you have more info on the pictured sword ???
Jack
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Craig Johnson
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PostPosted: Wed 05 Jan, 2011 6:54 am    Post subject: Hilt detail         Reply with quote

Hello All

I would agree that the hilt is ill represented by the artist in this case. I am not sure of the size of the original art but this does seem to be a relatively explainable as a hilt of Norman type 56, 74 or 75 depending on details and construction.

This excellent Flickr user had the largest pic I could find of the work
uisdinn's photostream
He owns rights to all images.

Here is an iso of my best guess to what the artist meant to be rapier. The upper sweeps seem to be lifted towards the pommel more then they should and the side ring seems to have been ill conceived as being on top of the arms as opposed to in the same plan. But if these elements are allowed to descend into place it would seem to fit the type well.


All rights owned by uisdinn's photostream

As an aside I think the Mort hilt that is traditional for Sir T is in Cleveland and is a broad double edge style piece.

Best
Craig
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