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Cerjak JL




Location: FRANCE
Joined: 22 Dec 2010

Posts: 34

PostPosted: Wed 22 Dec, 2010 9:54 am    Post subject: need help for indo persian helmet identification         Reply with quote

Hello,

This is my first post to the board, as I just joined.
I 'm french so I'm sorry for my level in english !! I do my best ,My questions deal with indo persian helmet, does anyone could help me to known more about this 2 helmets.

I have some photos of them which I took and I hope it will be enought to learn more about this helmets.
awaiting any comment on it

the conic one total size is 18 inch diameter 8.6 inch
jlc



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Bernard Delor




Location: France
Joined: 19 Nov 2010

Posts: 51

PostPosted: Thu 23 Dec, 2010 2:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hard to tell from the photos, but I would say Persia, Qajar period. The purpose of the small "tubes" on each side is to hold feathers. You can find some samples in the Manouchehr "Arms and armors from Iran" book.
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Sander Alsters




Location: Netherlands
Joined: 03 Jun 2009

Posts: 54

PostPosted: Fri 24 Dec, 2010 2:35 am    Post subject: Helmets         Reply with quote

True and also in Roninsons Oriental armour. The helmets atleast the one with the horns were used for parade, not for war. They belonged to officers. The one without the horns is missing a mail aventail though. Were did you get the pictures? I resendly went to Paris, to the war museum there. They got a few Saracen helmets and armour and even a fully armoured Mamluk on display.
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Cerjak JL




Location: FRANCE
Joined: 22 Dec 2010

Posts: 34

PostPosted: Fri 24 Dec, 2010 9:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dear sender and Bernard
First of all thank you for your help.
I have bought this 2 helmets from auctions.
I'm wondering about this one without mail aventail ,first the diameter is so big (around 23 centimeters) and at last the metal works ( how it had been assembled ) could be possible during Qajar period ? see the photo from inside..
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Mackenzie Cosens




Location: Vancouver Canada
Joined: 08 Aug 2007

Posts: 238

PostPosted: Fri 24 Dec, 2010 9:13 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I am not an expert but the weld in the 4th picture looks a lot like a modern weld to me. This would lead me to believe that piece containing the welds would be 20th Century construction. Perhaps someone with greater knowledge will comment.

Mackenzie
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Sa'ar Nudel




Location: Haifa, Israel
Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Likes: 16 pages

Posts: 354

PostPosted: Sun 26 Dec, 2010 5:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The conical helmet is a late "turban style" typical to Persia and the Caucasuss, the lower part of its nasal lost. The top spear appears to be brazed, but the overall look & technique seem late 19th - early 20th c. so probably both helmets are for parade. It is large enough to fit over an "arming turban".
Curator of Beit Ussishkin, regional nature & history museum, Upper Galilee.
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Cerjak JL




Location: FRANCE
Joined: 22 Dec 2010

Posts: 34

PostPosted: Mon 27 Dec, 2010 11:11 am    Post subject: indo persian helmet         Reply with quote

thank you everybody for your help.
So according your post those 2 helmets are parade helmet, but how recognize parade helmet between war helmet ?
If somobody have photos from war helmet from qajar period I will be very happy to see it.
For the conical one we can see inside that it was assembled by weld ,still when weld works is used in persian country ?
At last iwhat could be the value from this 2 helmets
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Ruel A. Macaraeg





Joined: 25 Aug 2003

Posts: 306

PostPosted: Mon 27 Dec, 2010 10:07 pm    Post subject: Re: indo persian helmet         Reply with quote

Cerjak JL wrote:
If somobody have photos from war helmet from qajar period I will be very happy to see it.


I have photos of Qajar helmets here, including one of my own:

http://forensicfashion.com/1786QajarCavalryHelmet.html

http://ForensicFashion.com/CostumeStudies.html
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