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Folkert van Wijk




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 13 Sep 2004
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Reading list: 2 books

Posts: 206

PostPosted: Tue 14 Dec, 2010 4:06 am    Post subject: Book Spanish circle/magic circle fencing technique?         Reply with quote

Digging into the Spanish (colonial) histrory and wanting to own a spanish sword, I think it would be good to know something about Spanish swordplay of the period. I also heared (here?) about the spanish circle that involves a special technique of foodwork and posisions.

So my question is, is there a book that deals with this Spanish circle/magic circle fencing technique?
That I could buy and read?

thanks Folkert

A good sword will only be sharp, in the hands of a wise manů

I am great fan of everything Celtic BC, including there weapons.
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Steve Hick




Location: United States
Joined: 28 May 2009

Posts: 46

PostPosted: Tue 14 Dec, 2010 9:52 am    Post subject: Re: Book Spanish circle/magic circle fencing technique?         Reply with quote

Folkert van Wijk wrote:
Digging into the Spanish (colonial) histrory and wanting to own a spanish sword, I think it would be good to know something about Spanish swordplay of the period. I also heared (here?) about the spanish circle that involves a special technique of foodwork and posisions.

So my question is, is there a book that deals with this Spanish circle/magic circle fencing technique?
That I could buy and read?

thanks Folkert


Well...

It is uncertain how much of the La Verdadera Destreza, the upper class true art, was used by the common soldier, at least until later 1600 or so. Before that, and in parallel you would have the Esgrima Antigua or Esgrima Comun, old or common fencing. Also, the mystical aspect may be overplayed, except perhaps in one instance, below.

But as to LVD (for short), there is really no work not in Spanish, or Portuguese, that is orthodox. There is one work, not orthodox, that has been translated into English (it was in French) which is Thibault's Academe d'Espee - translated by Michael Greer, available from Chivalry Bookshelf (Academy of the Sword, The Mystery of the Spanish Circle in Swordsmanship & Esoteric Arts, Girard Thibault d'Anvers, Trans. by John Michael Greer, ISBN: 1-891448-40-4 http://www.chivalrybookshelf.com/). The translator is also involved in mystical studies, and has included some interpretation that way. This is closest to your inquiry.

Puck Curtis has some material up from Ettenhard, on his blog, and there is a video from M. Martinez. Puck will have a large monograph on the Spanish school in "In Service Of Mars" coming out soon.

There is nothing on Esgrima Comun or Antigua, really, other than the two handed sword material that Eric Myers and I did.

Steve

Steve Hick
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Mackenzie Cosens




Location: Vancouver Canada
Joined: 08 Aug 2007

Posts: 238

PostPosted: Tue 14 Dec, 2010 10:05 am    Post subject: Re: Book Spanish circle/magic circle fencing technique?         Reply with quote

Beat to the punch...

Note Thibault was Dutch, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%A9rard_Thibault_d%27Anvers . I believe one of the claims of his book is that you can learn his system with just his book. I understand it is not that easy

mackenzie
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Folkert van Wijk




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 13 Sep 2004
Likes: 2 pages
Reading list: 2 books

Posts: 206

PostPosted: Wed 15 Dec, 2010 2:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks guys! Very intriquing info!

That's another book for on my list!

A good sword will only be sharp, in the hands of a wise manů

I am great fan of everything Celtic BC, including there weapons.
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Folkert van Wijk




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 13 Sep 2004
Likes: 2 pages
Reading list: 2 books

Posts: 206

PostPosted: Wed 15 Dec, 2010 3:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's are some interresting webpages on the subject to get a feel for what it's all about...

http://sjaqua.tripod.com/spanishc.htm

http://www.martinez-destreza.com/articles/spanish1.htm

Cheers!

A good sword will only be sharp, in the hands of a wise manů

I am great fan of everything Celtic BC, including there weapons.
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Vincent Le Chevalier




Location: Paris, France
Joined: 07 Dec 2005
Reading list: 15 books

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Posts: 843

PostPosted: Wed 15 Dec, 2010 12:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You can find scans of the whole of Thibault's book by following the links in this thread. It is actually one of my favourite treatises Happy I did a write-up about some of the basic principles here, but the work is a lot richer than what I described...

Puck & Mary Curtis have put some good articles online in addition to the ongoing Ettenhard translation.

Regards,

--
Vincent
Ensis Sub Caelo
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Mackenzie Cosens




Location: Vancouver Canada
Joined: 08 Aug 2007

Posts: 238

PostPosted: Wed 15 Dec, 2010 1:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Does any one have an opinion on Greer's translation?
Is it a good tool to work with for a unilingual North America?
mackenzie
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Folkert van Wijk




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 13 Sep 2004
Likes: 2 pages
Reading list: 2 books

Posts: 206

PostPosted: Wed 15 Dec, 2010 2:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Vincent Le Chevalier wrote:
You can find scans of the whole of Thibault's book by following the links in this thread. It is actually one of my favourite treatises Happy I did a write-up about some of the basic principles here, but the work is a lot richer than what I described...

Puck & Mary Curtis have put some good articles online in addition to the ongoing Ettenhard translation.

Regards,


Thanks!! This is a lot of cool info and stuff, and uh....

... I think... ...I do feel an obsesion comming up... LOL

A good sword will only be sharp, in the hands of a wise manů

I am great fan of everything Celtic BC, including there weapons.
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Reinier van Noort





Joined: 13 Dec 2006

Posts: 165

PostPosted: Thu 16 Dec, 2010 6:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hallo Folkert

Thibault is a fantastically complex and interesting source, with a huge and daunting focus on details. Do read it.

Other than that, I think there is a manuscript somewhere in Belgium, or in the Koninklijke Bibliotheek that Matt Galas has talked about on a few occasions. that seems to describe the older style of fencing, and it written (in Belgium) by a Spaniard.

You might also be interested in this:

www.bruchius.com

If you have further questions, feel free to contact me.

Cheers,

Reinier

School voor Historische Schermkunsten

www.bruchius.com
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Steve Hick




Location: United States
Joined: 28 May 2009

Posts: 46

PostPosted: Thu 16 Dec, 2010 7:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Reinier van Noort wrote:
Hallo Folkert

Thibault is a fantastically complex and interesting source, with a huge and daunting focus on details. Do read it.

Other than that, I think there is a manuscript somewhere in Belgium, or in the Koninklijke Bibliotheek that Matt Galas has talked about on a few occasions. that seems to describe the older style of fencing, and it written (in Belgium) by a Spaniard.

You might also be interested in this:

www.bruchius.com

If you have further questions, feel free to contact me.

Cheers,

Reinier


http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.p...light=1625

Steve Hick
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