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Larry Bohnham





Joined: 20 May 2010

Posts: 98

PostPosted: Wed 08 Dec, 2010 10:22 am    Post subject: Voiders v. Full Hauberks         Reply with quote

Does anyone know when maille voiders became widely used under plate harnesses and replaced wearing a full maille hauberk under the upper body plates? My less than scientific research seems to point to the later half of the 15th century, what say the rest of you?
"No athlete can fight tenaciously who has never received any blows; he must see his blood flow and hear his teeth crack under the fist of his adversary..."
Roger of Hoveden, d.1201

a furore Normannorum libera nos Domine

"Henry, get down off that horse with that sword, you'll put someone's eye out!" Mrs. Bolingbroke's advice to her son, Henry, on the eve of the battle of Agincourt
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Scott Hrouda




Location: Minnesota, USA
Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Likes: 15 pages
Reading list: 87 books

Posts: 643

PostPosted: Wed 08 Dec, 2010 11:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There is a bit of information in this earlier thread.

Question: 14th century haubergeon vs. voiders & skirt

...and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped. - Sir Bedevere
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Larry Bohnham





Joined: 20 May 2010

Posts: 98

PostPosted: Thu 09 Dec, 2010 10:09 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks Scott,
Looks like you folks beat that horse pretty much to death. I surmised that there was probably a lot of overlap during the 14th into 15th centuries on the issue. There is often no definitive line in the historical sand of technology transition as older tech often survives side by side with what will replace it. The horse shared the road with the auto well into the post WW2 era in many part of the world, for instance. I suspect that the hauberk/haubergeon was used under full plate for some time depending on the preferences/experience/wealth of the wearer and the skill and experience of various armorers. My main focus for the question is 1400 - 1430, particularly what would have been common at Agincourt for the upper tier of the nobility. I would guess that as usual the wealthiest people would have the most current, highest tech, stuff and everybody else down the food chain would have what ever they could get.

Nice bascinet in your avatar pic by the way, who made it? I've always liked those, even though I'm concentrating on the Agincourt period (most likely there were some old school types at the battle sporting the hundsgugel, though).

"No athlete can fight tenaciously who has never received any blows; he must see his blood flow and hear his teeth crack under the fist of his adversary..."
Roger of Hoveden, d.1201

a furore Normannorum libera nos Domine

"Henry, get down off that horse with that sword, you'll put someone's eye out!" Mrs. Bolingbroke's advice to her son, Henry, on the eve of the battle of Agincourt
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Scott Hrouda




Location: Minnesota, USA
Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Likes: 15 pages
Reading list: 87 books

Posts: 643

PostPosted: Thu 09 Dec, 2010 1:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You are correct that it is very difficult to nail down an absolute answer as there are several answers, and none of them are absolute! That's what attracts me to this particular point in time. There is so much armour development happening simultaneously all over the continent at different paces in different places with differing styles. It's really quite dynamic.

The bascinet is a GDFB. Blush I've had to extensively modify it for fit, aesthetics, and to pass inspection for SCA style rattan combat. I bought it specifically with the intention of stripping it down totally and building it back up. As a DIY kinda guy, I like this stuff. I just don't have the skills or tools to raise a visor or bascinet.

...and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped. - Sir Bedevere
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