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Arek Przybylok




Location: Upper Silesia
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PostPosted: Tue 30 Nov, 2010 2:27 am    Post subject: Early mirror armour         Reply with quote

Looking for possible early mirror armor. Are there any armor, the iconography of the 14- early 15th century?
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F. Carl Holz




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PostPosted: Tue 30 Nov, 2010 5:16 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

"mirror armor"?

perhaps just steel that has been polished to an extreme?... otherwise i have never heard of anything historical termed "mirror armor".

sorry,

-Carl

31. And there are some whom everyone should consider to be wise...
-Le Livre de Chevalerie, Geffroi Charny-
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Craig Johnson
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PostPosted: Tue 30 Nov, 2010 5:24 am    Post subject: If you mean high polish         Reply with quote

Hi Arek

If you mean do we have evidence for highly polished armor? The answer is yes. It was not the average finish but there are quite a few depictions of armor creating highly recognizable reflections and details. This would have been a high status finish. The examples that leap to mind most quickly are noble and saintly depictions of armor.

Best
Craig
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Johann M




Location: London
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PostPosted: Tue 30 Nov, 2010 6:52 am    Post subject: Re: Early mirror armour         Reply with quote

Arek Przybylok wrote:
Looking for possible early mirror armor. Are there any armor, the iconography of the 14- early 15th century?

Like disc armour or a Chahar-Ainé?
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Matt Corbin




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PostPosted: Tue 30 Nov, 2010 7:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Do you mean something like the new shadowshield?

http://www.theshadowshield.com/index.phtml

“This was the age of heroes, some legendary, some historical . . . the misty borderland of history where fact and legend mingle.”
- R. Ewart Oakeshott


Last edited by Matt Corbin on Tue 30 Nov, 2010 9:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Tue 30 Nov, 2010 8:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

We have a Spotlight Topic on the subject:

Evidence of mirror polished armour

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Arek Przybylok




Location: Upper Silesia
Joined: 16 Jan 2007

Posts: 110

PostPosted: Tue 30 Nov, 2010 9:12 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I thought of the eastern armor with four or six relatively flat panels. All of Eastern languages include this term (zbroja zwierciadlana, Зерцальный доспех, Shar-ayna).
Sorry for the lack of precision Happy

http://www.louvre.fr/llv/oeuvres/detail_notic...mLocale=en
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Timo Nieminen




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PostPosted: Tue 30 Nov, 2010 12:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The earliest char aina or similar I know of off-hand is one in the Met dated to about 1600, and appearances in painting from about 1600 also. Robinson, "Oriental armour" has some sketches taken from an early 17th century Shahnama that might be char aina.

All of which are later than what you're after. The early end of Persian miniature painting will cover your period, but most of what I see of Persian miniatures is later, much later (Timurid or later).

And while one might conceivably call the Phillip II (of Macedon) armour a char aina, this is much earlier than your period.

"In addition to being efficient, all pole arms were quite nice to look at." - Cherney Berg, A hideous history of weapons, Collier 1963.
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Timo Nieminen




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PostPosted: Tue 30 Nov, 2010 2:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The relevant Wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_armour) says that a Russian paper, ЗАЩИТНОЕ ВООРУЖЕНИЕ СРЕДНЕАЗИАТСКОГО ВОИНА ЭПОХИ ПОЗДНЕГО РЕДНЕВЕКОВЬЯ, available online, claims that there are possible char aina in 13th century Persian miniatures. Worn by Mongols, and I say "possible" because from the Wikipedia description, one plate is visible, and only 1 plate doesn't make 4 mirrors. Figure 5 in the paper shows some sketches of char aina, but later than your period. Armed with only the most rudimentary Russian, I haven't read the paper.
"In addition to being efficient, all pole arms were quite nice to look at." - Cherney Berg, A hideous history of weapons, Collier 1963.
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Philip Gr.




Location: Moers, NRW, Germany
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PostPosted: Thu 02 Dec, 2010 1:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi,

Regarding the mongols:
Mongols used chest mirrors at least from the 13th century on. But these were very small, indeed only one, loose plate. Such chest mirrors might have a more spiritual than practical meaning. The chest mirror had the task to drive away evil spirits that were thought to be summoned by the shamans. Because these demons could not attack the shamans and other mongols (who wore chest mirrors) they were believed to harm the enemies.

I am not sure there is a connection between the chest mirrors and later mirror armors. But it is possible that the mongol chest mirrors, which were also worn over armor, later became bigger and transformed into the Persian Char-Aina.
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