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Koen de Bruin




Location: Nijmegen
Joined: 27 Nov 2010

Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sat 27 Nov, 2010 10:29 am    Post subject: 13th century poor man's tent.         Reply with quote

I could really use some help ^^

And I am going to make my personal tent!
I have yet to find the right model to make.
I have no armour to store in my tent since I am a poor monk, so my plan is to make a tent that is just high enough to comfortably sleep in, and maybe store the very few personal possessions I have. Also, my real life budget is very small (poor monk in 13th century, poor student in the 21st), so low-budget is a must.

Pavillon and Geteld are not suitable models
The pavillon would require a lot of cloth, and both have the problem of normally being very large.
A Geteld of about 1.10 meter high would look really silly.

So in conclusion: I am looking for a poor man's, cheap tent of the 13 century (Knights hospitaller to be exact: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...ospitaller)
(Yes, I know, they were rich knights... Let's just pretend I'm the one monk who still takes the vow of poverty seriously)

Your help would be greatly appreciated Big Grin

Coenradt Egidius, the poor monk.

Dominus pascit me et nihil mihi deerit.
nam et si ambulavero in medio umbrae mortis non timebo mala quoniam tu mecum es



the Knights Hospitaller: www.hospitaalridders.nl
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Hendrik De Coster




Location: Belgium
Joined: 20 Jan 2007

Posts: 115

PostPosted: Sat 27 Nov, 2010 10:38 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

even in the 15th century most man at arms(guys who could afford a complete armour ) shared tents with others.
if you want the cheap 1 person tent i'd say make a 360 mantle which you can lay over your staff weapon inserted into the ground. then you've got an instant shelter!
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Allen Jones




Location: NC, USA
Joined: 10 Apr 2008

Posts: 18

PostPosted: Sat 27 Nov, 2010 2:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

When I think of a poor man's tent I think of a lean to. It is about as simple, cheap, and easy as they come.

Allen
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Jared Smith




Location: Tennessee
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PostPosted: Sat 27 Nov, 2010 4:27 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Worst case, roll up in an oil cloth and prop up the part near your head with your boots to provide some air and breathing space. My son's Boy Scout troop master still does that at an age near 80 years old as it lets him pack light. (Gets by in rain, snow, etc.)
Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence!
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Tom Kinder





Joined: 27 Nov 2008

Posts: 148

PostPosted: Sat 27 Nov, 2010 5:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

poor man's tent = bush?

I think the concept of what was poor in those days was significantly different than what we think of today. probably shockingly different.

I do like the oil cloth suggestion, sounds very rugged and ranger-y-cool, but not very comfortable.
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Chuck Russell




Location: WV
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Reading list: 46 books

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PostPosted: Sat 27 Nov, 2010 9:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

a stick hut
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Koen de Bruin




Location: Nijmegen
Joined: 27 Nov 2010

Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sun 28 Nov, 2010 1:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the help!

I like the lean-to idea.
It would be 2 poles, connected by a rope, and with a cloth tossed over them?

It would make a triangular shaped tent, maybe with a small piece of cloth to close up the open ends on the side?
(that would still leave one big side of the tent open, preferably the side aimed at the campfire Happy )

Coenradt Egidius, the poor monk.

Dominus pascit me et nihil mihi deerit.
nam et si ambulavero in medio umbrae mortis non timebo mala quoniam tu mecum es



the Knights Hospitaller: www.hospitaalridders.nl
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Allen Jones




Location: NC, USA
Joined: 10 Apr 2008

Posts: 18

PostPosted: Sun 28 Nov, 2010 10:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If you are going with the lean-to and making side flaps I would recommend also adding a flap to cover the front open part of the lean-to. It isn't much more work or material but it is really nice when the wind changes direction or when it rains. Also pack two more pegs to stake down this flap for the windy nights.

Allen
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Sander Marechal




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 04 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Sun 28 Nov, 2010 10:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Are there any extant depictions of such tents?
The Knights Hospitaller: http://www.hospitaalridders.nl
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Patrick De Block




Location: Belgium
Joined: 10 Aug 2008

Posts: 84

PostPosted: Sun 28 Nov, 2010 1:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Coenraedt Egidius,

Just stick the pole in the ground at one end so the other end is about three feet above the ground. If you are afraid that it will fall on your head cut a forked branch to rest that end on or simply lean it against a tree or on a low branch. If you need a flap to protect you from the weather your not a poor monk anymore.

Patrick
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Jared Smith




Location: Tennessee
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PostPosted: Sun 28 Nov, 2010 1:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Tom Kinder wrote:

I do like the oil cloth suggestion, sounds very rugged and ranger-y-cool, but not very comfortable.


Even with modern backpacking high tech/$ tents... the comfort part is still largely dependent on choosing and preparing optimal ground, (bed of leaves cleared of hard debris, on drained area if possible), and having a soft ground cloth/pad or similar device underneath. I've lost track of how many tents I have owned for primitive camping. Price point and features often don't translate into comfortable humidity and temperature in an actual trial. Just having too big a tent for a small number of occupants can make it chilly in cold weather, or vice versa (small tent turning humid and warm in hot weather.) Picking a good weight cloth and interior volume for the weather, and the ground its set upon have a lot to do with it. Some of the most expensive "cocoon type" lightweight tents are specific to certain weather conditions, and are easily replaced by an appropriate tarp or cloth using the "roll up inside" method I mentioned.

The gear and pack can just be hung from a tree using some string, and a separate bag that protects the pack from dew or rain.

Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence!
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Koen de Bruin




Location: Nijmegen
Joined: 27 Nov 2010

Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sun 28 Nov, 2010 2:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the tips to get it comfortable.

Just some questions about the size/temperature/humidity relation

How does hight relate to temperature in the tent? I know that warm air rises, but does that really have a significant effect in a tent that is 2 meters high compared to a 1.5 meter tent?
How do I keep the humidity out? of course finding a good place to set it up in case it rains is important, and maybe dig a ditch around the tent if rain is expected, but what about the dew? Is a proper peg to keep the tent cloth in the ground enough to stay comfortable?

On the historical aspect:
The Lean-to would have the most advantages for me, since I can use it as a cover when not sleeping, maybe even set up my own workspace or altar... problem is the historical justification.
Is there anything historical to say about this model other than it's plausible because of the simplicity of the design? (If necessary, I'd go with that though Wink, I prefer to have some evidence to back me up though)

Coenradt Egidius, the poor monk.

Dominus pascit me et nihil mihi deerit.
nam et si ambulavero in medio umbrae mortis non timebo mala quoniam tu mecum es



the Knights Hospitaller: www.hospitaalridders.nl
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Sander Marechal




Location: The Netherlands
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PostPosted: Sun 28 Nov, 2010 10:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I found this image: http://home.adelphi.edu/sbloch/sca/tents/pict..._tents.jpg

It looks like simple wegdes from a sheet of cloth and two small poles. No flaps. It's from the cover of an accounting book from the city of Sienna, Italy, for the year 1479 (found here).

The Knights Hospitaller: http://www.hospitaalridders.nl
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Rusty Thomas




Location: San Antonio, Texas
Joined: 30 Oct 2007

Posts: 31

PostPosted: Sun 28 Nov, 2010 11:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You could check out some of the tents that Tent Smiths makes. www.Tentsmiths.com This should give you some ideas. If it were me i would go with something historically "plausible". i would also find a way do "disguise" a modern insulated ground pad. Maybe sew some oilskin (which you could easily make" around a shorty ridgrest pad. If it is going to be a cool night this will greatly increase your comfort. Of course you could gather natural materials but that might not be possible all the time. My criteria would be something that covers me enough to keep out the weather, tall enough to at least sit-up in and have an opening/door of some sort to allow the heat of a fire in. Sounds like a good nights rest to me!
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Chuck Russell




Location: WV
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Mon 29 Nov, 2010 2:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote





some ideas
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Sander Marechal




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Reading list: 17 books

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PostPosted: Mon 29 Nov, 2010 12:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Are those straw tents? Or are they some kind of more permanent huts/dwellings?
The Knights Hospitaller: http://www.hospitaalridders.nl


Last edited by Sander Marechal on Mon 29 Nov, 2010 9:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

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PostPosted: Mon 29 Nov, 2010 12:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

German/Austrian, ca. 1440. There could be perspective problems here, but it's interesting. My guess is that pilgrims and other travelers would have either slept rough or taken shelter in barns, sheds, inns, etc. A monk would probably find shelter pretty easily in inhabited areas.


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-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Chuck Russell




Location: WV
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PostPosted: Mon 29 Nov, 2010 2:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

the bottom picture i believe show military encampments
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Elling Polden




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PostPosted: Mon 29 Nov, 2010 2:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Generally, a tent would be to cumbersome to carry for a single traveler, unless it is a very simple, light type. Even then, later armies would have a minimum of two men for each tent, or split the tent in halves.

it seems tents where mainly used when you need to camp somewhere for some time, for instance during military expeditions or tourneys. In such instances, one would have sufficient transportation to bring them. (though the reenactor's trend of bringing about two tons furniture and conveniences would in most instances be a bit anacronistic at best.)

For comparison, the external frame "oseberg" tents commonly seen among viking reenactors where originally deck tents for ships. These are mentioned in the sagas, as well as seperate "shore tents", for use when spending the night on land.

"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
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