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Karl Schlesien





Joined: 15 Sep 2010

Posts: 54

PostPosted: Mon 25 Oct, 2010 4:15 am    Post subject: Scottish 17th Century Targe         Reply with quote

"Scottish 17th Century Targe"

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/8035127

What are your opinions on this item?

A 19th century fantasy or just misnamed?



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Stephen Curtin




Location: Cork, Ireland
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PostPosted: Mon 25 Oct, 2010 4:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Karl, thanks for posting this. I'm far from an expert on this subject, but to my unlearned eyes this seems to look more like an English or continental target.
Éirinn go Brách
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Lin Robinson




Location: NC
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PostPosted: Mon 25 Oct, 2010 5:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I do not think this is a Scottish targe. It just does not look like any antique targe I have ever seen. I looked at the web site and did not find any description of its construction.

Just speculation but but I think this may be a Victorian attempt at a targe or perhaps it is a shield from somewhere and some time frame unknown.

Lin Robinson

"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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Ed McV




Location: Ontario,Canada
Joined: 06 Mar 2006

Posts: 27

PostPosted: Mon 25 Oct, 2010 6:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have been looking at this targe (shield) It does not look like it is leather covered but more like steel in texture. The studs are Iron and the design material looks more like tarnished Copper than the usual Brass. If you look at the back of the shield carefully you will notice the stud shank is finished off like a rivet. It probably had a boss and a spike. However, its a good design and because of its stated age (if true) it could be Scottish. We did have metal targes.
I have had no reply from the auction house wit more details of this item.
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Ed McV




Location: Ontario,Canada
Joined: 06 Mar 2006

Posts: 27

PostPosted: Mon 25 Oct, 2010 10:38 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have heard from the auction house and they have confirmed the targe/shield materials. The targe is not leather covered but is an Iron based shield with red Brass decoration and Iron studs. This being so it could still be a Scottish targe but from the early to late 17 th C. James Drummond does show a Scottish/Highland metal shield.
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Henrik Bjoern Boegh




Location: Aust Agder, Norway
Joined: 03 Mar 2004

Posts: 386

PostPosted: Mon 25 Oct, 2010 1:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'll go with Lin on this. I just think it looks like some of the other stuff made in the Victorian era...

A carbon test would be interesting...

Cheers,
Henrik

Constant and true.
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Thom R.




Location: Tucson
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PostPosted: Mon 25 Oct, 2010 1:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Interesting piece. Hard to know for sure without documentation on provenance. I am with Lin and Henrik as in most of these cases skepticism seems the better policy. Looks like a 19th century replica to me and the center holes could have been for brackets that were used to hold swords. tr
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Lin Robinson




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PostPosted: Mon 25 Oct, 2010 2:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The "grip" shown on the back looks more like something you might use to hang it on the wall. I just don't think it is very old or Scottish.
Lin Robinson

"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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Karl Schlesien





Joined: 15 Sep 2010

Posts: 54

PostPosted: Sat 30 Oct, 2010 8:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes I do agree that the artefact is not what is listed to be. I have looked at it now for some hours and think that the holes in the centre are for the mounting of crossed swords from it's behind. And like Mr. Robinson has said the hand hold is most likly for hanging on a wall.

Ed do they give any provenance for the item?


Well then, here is a targe that is real. I think. But at what price?

http://www.albanarms.com/index.php?mact=Produ...eturnid=59

Look at all the other pages, very fine pieces!



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Karl Schlesien





Joined: 15 Sep 2010

Posts: 54

PostPosted: Mon 01 Nov, 2010 5:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Another here for coment. I am thinking that this too is a late Victorian copy but it is perhaps early twentieth century.
I think it tries too hard to be old.

http://www.antiqueswords.com/product-1800-A-V...Shield.htm
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