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Andreas Auer




Location: Innsbruck, Tirol, Austria, Europe
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PostPosted: Tue 19 Oct, 2010 12:19 am    Post subject: Sword found in Austria.         Reply with quote

look here ... http://www.linz.at/hotspot_portal/news_53776.asp ...in German only (sorry)


a type XII i think.

The secret is,
to keep that pointy end thingy away from you...
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Richard Martell




Location: Austria, near "Conans" birthplace
Joined: 25 Apr 2010

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PostPosted: Tue 19 Oct, 2010 3:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote



That's how it looks like.
Approximately 1200 AD.
The wooden grip isn't rotten!
It's too bad that the point is gone Sad

Ich dien.
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Matt Corbin




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PostPosted: Tue 19 Oct, 2010 9:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That's pretty amazing that the grip is still preserved after 800 years.


 Attachment: 86.36 KB
18102010cmittel.jpg


“This was the age of heroes, some legendary, some historical . . . the misty borderland of history where fact and legend mingle.”
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Michael B.
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Location: Chugiak, AK
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PostPosted: Tue 19 Oct, 2010 10:09 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Really well preserved! It looks pretty beefy. I don't understand a lot of german, but it seems to me that it was preserved because of something covering it? Is that right? I hope they publish more photos of this, and the fact it has maker's marks on it is neat. Regardless of the tip missing, that thing still looks lethal after 800 years.
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Michael Bergstrom
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Douglas S





Joined: 18 Feb 2004

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PostPosted: Tue 19 Oct, 2010 10:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Plenty of questions here. Who is holding the sword and shouldn't he be wearing gloves? And what's his assistant have in her hands?
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Christopher Treichel




Location: Metro D.C.
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PostPosted: Tue 19 Oct, 2010 1:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

quick translation. my apologies for any errors... don't have my dictionary at hand right now.

News out of LINZ
press release from 18 October 2010 Culture
Well preserved sword out of the Crusade time has been found
The City Archeologist Univ.-Prof. Dr. Erwin M. Ruprechtsberger and his team have been surprised with the find of a well preserved sword from the time of the crusades around 1200. The almost completely preserved, almost 90cm long sword was accidentally found in the Donauschotter by Linz. It contains a strong, flexible and judged to be a blade of highest quality steel.
The rarity of the preservation is that they were encased in a material which protected the four letters engraved into the sword that were part of the maker or owner as well as the well preserved wood grip and the mushroom shaped pommel. It is similar to a mass of bitumen on the outside a bowl of stream mud and debris. This acted as a stabilizer and protected it for 800 years. Even a few fabric remnants were preserved.
Metallurgist Prof. Preßlinger from the voestalpine approved the great quality of the sword steel. More scientific findings are awaited to decipher the discovery of the sword, the singled letters and the protective covering. The historians will submit theories about which time period and to which historical events and context the perfectly preserved sword out of the Donauschotter fits.
About ten years ago a similar sword was found in the Traun near Ebelsberg which originated from the founding of the castle Ebelsberg, the „Eperesburg.“ This sword resides in the Archeological collection of the Nordico.
The Gentleman in the picture is Stadtarchäologe Univ.-Prof. Dr. Erwin M. Ruprechtsberger. The lady is one of is colleagues
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Scott Hrouda




Location: Minnesota, USA
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PostPosted: Tue 19 Oct, 2010 1:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you for the translation.

Wow, wow, and wow. Eek! I can't wait to hear more about this find. I love the simple style 3 cross (it doesn't appear to taper like a style 1) and the state of preservation is great for an archeological find. What classification would you apply to the pommel?

...and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped. - Sir Bedevere
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Richard Martell




Location: Austria, near "Conans" birthplace
Joined: 25 Apr 2010

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PostPosted: Tue 19 Oct, 2010 10:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Christopher Treichel wrote:
Donauschotter by Linz.


btw, this means it was found in the gravel of the river Danube near the city Linz
Wink

@Douglas S.:
Maybe the sword is already covered with a special coating?
That's quite common in archaeology.

The assistant is holding that kind of material which covered the sword for 800 years.

Ich dien.
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Tim Lison




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PostPosted: Tue 19 Oct, 2010 11:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Awesome sword. The pommel is a beast. It looks as though it is hexagonal? Kind of an oddball to be sure! Very cool, thanks for posting this.
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Andreas Auer




Location: Innsbruck, Tirol, Austria, Europe
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PostPosted: Wed 20 Oct, 2010 12:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

thx for the translation....

yep it seems its already cleaned and conserved.

it would be interesting if the bitumen was some kind of transport packaging...are ther any similar finds of such cover...

The secret is,
to keep that pointy end thingy away from you...
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Christopher Treichel




Location: Metro D.C.
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PostPosted: Wed 20 Oct, 2010 7:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Richard Martell wrote:
Christopher Treichel wrote:
Donauschotter by Linz.


gravel


Schotter= gravel thank you...
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Wed 20 Oct, 2010 8:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

One thought: If a ship or barge burned at anchor with the weapon aboard, the hilt could conceivably have been accidentally preserved by melting pitch and spared from the fire by the sinking.
-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Florian Machl




Location: Linz, Austria
Joined: 25 Oct 2010

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PostPosted: Mon 25 Oct, 2010 8:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You find lots of additional pictures here: http://www.huscarl.at/wissenschaft64.php

If we get more information, I will let you know. Maybe someone is so kind to translate the essential informations for anyone who is interested. All images are available in an original format of about 4000-5000 pixels width.
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Richard Martell




Location: Austria, near "Conans" birthplace
Joined: 25 Apr 2010

Posts: 15

PostPosted: Mon 25 Oct, 2010 1:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Florian Machl wrote:
Maybe someone is so kind to translate the essential informations for anyone who is interested.

Dann bin ich mal so "kind" und übernehme das geschwind Happy



"Linz Sword" or "River Danube Sword" – new juicy information:

This early 13th century sword has some kind of quite thin, high quality steel blade – maybe damask steel – an expert for metallurgy will check this in the next three weeks.
The barely visible inscription shows ЯSЯS – (I personally believe that the mirror-inverted „R“ is not cyrillic. Possibly it is a special trademark? Like the first B in ABBA Wink
The sword was packed in bitumen for many years – but one day that protective cover broke at the top and the point corroded.
Remarkable - the wood (glued on the steel) and the linnen of the hilt are partially preserved!


Measurements (not precisely):

Pommel length: 5 cm
Pommel width: 6.7 cm
Hilt length: 9.5 - 10,5 cm
Cross guard diameter: 1.4 cm
Cross guard width: 18.6 cm
Blade width at base: 6.2 cm
Overall length (without the corroded top): 90,5 cm
Blade length (without the corroded top): 73 cm
Estimated originally overall length: 110 – 112 cm
Estimated originally blade length: 93 - 95 cm

Above data were sent to the Oakshott Institute but your help is welcome too!
Does anybody now similar swords?
Does anybody now something about the inscription?

PS: Alfred Geibig will issue a statement to this sword soon.








The last one is the "River Danube Sword"


Ich dien.
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Craig Conde




Location: New York
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PostPosted: Wed 27 Oct, 2010 6:41 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The base of the blade seems to be very intact with out any large defects, except for the large finger shaped notch at the base of the blade. Does anyone else think this might have been a feature designed for fingering the blade without losing a digit and not just rust?

(BTW, First time posting. Hi!)

-Craig
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Jeremy V. Krause




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PostPosted: Wed 27 Oct, 2010 10:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

1200 seems a bit late to me. Anyone else think so?
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Irene Philips




Location: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 22 Oct 2010

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PostPosted: Wed 27 Oct, 2010 11:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This is truly an amazing find! Thanks for providing the translation, Christopher!

While I agree what the gentleman holding the sword should be wearing gloves, it's probably the last thing on my mind at this point. LOL. If this sword is indeed from 1200, then we can safely say that the sword was extremely well preserved.
All sorts of questions arise from this find. Who owned this sword? Was it intentionally preserved or preserved by the likes of good luck? I want to know all that I can!

Madame Irene
mittlerbros.com
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Craig Johnson
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PostPosted: Wed 27 Oct, 2010 2:10 pm    Post subject: Date         Reply with quote

Jeremy V. Krause wrote:
1200 seems a bit late to me. Anyone else think so?


Hi Jeremy

Its one of those things where it doesn't seem to have any context in the find to date it, so I think that date is more a supposition based on some preliminary research. I would not be surprised to see such a sword in this place at that date but this style of piece was popular for quite some time and the nuances of the shapes and details will hopefully mesh with more date able pieces in the historic record.

I would probably hold off on offering dates that are real specific but I think we would need to consider late 11th C. all the way to the early 13th C. as possible but much more likely some where in the middle of that period.

Craig
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Craig Johnson
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PostPosted: Wed 27 Oct, 2010 2:13 pm    Post subject: Notch         Reply with quote

Craig Conde wrote:
The base of the blade seems to be very intact with out any large defects, except for the large finger shaped notch at the base of the blade. Does anyone else think this might have been a feature designed for fingering the blade without losing a digit and not just rust?

(BTW, First time posting. Hi!)


Hi Craig

Welcome to the forum. I do not think this is an intentional notch when you look at the close up pics it appears to be heavy corrosion.

Best
Craig
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Florian Machl




Location: Linz, Austria
Joined: 25 Oct 2010

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PostPosted: Thu 28 Oct, 2010 1:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Statements of Craig Johnson and Alfred Geibig were recently added to the news article.

http://www.huscarl.at/wissenschaft64.php
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