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Robert Hinds




Location: Whitewater, Wisconsin USA
Joined: 15 Sep 2010
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Posts: 245

PostPosted: Thu 14 Oct, 2010 5:07 pm    Post subject: Requesting 15th Century foot soldier images         Reply with quote

I'm putting together a 15thc commoner infantry kit, but i'm lacking in period images. If anyone could post a link or picture of a WOTR footsoldier (man-at-arms, archer, billmen, militia), or any 15thc foot soldier for that matter, that would help me choose the right armour and weapons, I would really appreciate it.

I've searched the internet for such images but have not been able to find more than a couple.

Thank you in advance. Happy

"Young knight, learn to love God and revere women; thus your honor will grow. Practice knighthood and learn the Art that dignifies you, and brings you honor in wars." -Johannes Liechtenauer

"...And he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one..." Luke 22:36
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Chuck Russell




Location: WV
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Reading list: 46 books

Posts: 936

PostPosted: Fri 15 Oct, 2010 6:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

are you looking for originals or reenactors?
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Robert Hinds




Location: Whitewater, Wisconsin USA
Joined: 15 Sep 2010
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Posts: 245

PostPosted: Fri 15 Oct, 2010 7:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

preferably originals, but if you've got some good pics of reenactors then those are okay too.
"Young knight, learn to love God and revere women; thus your honor will grow. Practice knighthood and learn the Art that dignifies you, and brings you honor in wars." -Johannes Liechtenauer

"...And he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one..." Luke 22:36
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Martin Fischer




Location: Cologne, Germany
Joined: 21 Jul 2007

Posts: 43

PostPosted: Fri 15 Oct, 2010 7:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

... try this:

http://tarvos.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/cgi-imareal/kleioc

Regards

Martin
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Scott Hrouda




Location: Minnesota, USA
Joined: 17 Nov 2006
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Reading list: 87 books

Posts: 643

PostPosted: Fri 15 Oct, 2010 8:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

For a very well done book by reenactors try The Medieval Soldier: 15th Century Campaign Life Recreated in Colour Photographs. This is one of my favorite books! The pictures are stunning and the Company of Saynte George's attention to historical detail is sharp. Granted, some educated guesswork was involved in the portrayal, but the end result is definitely worth the price of admission.Happy
...and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped. - Sir Bedevere
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David Teague




Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Joined: 25 Jan 2004

Posts: 409

PostPosted: Fri 15 Oct, 2010 9:12 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

One of my favorite period sources, Hans Memling. The Martyrdom of St. Ursula's Companions and The Martyrdom of St. Ursula circa 1489


High res below. (just click on the plates for the large size view)

Plate 5 http://www.lib-art.com/artgallery/13888-st-ur...mling.html

Plate 6 http://www.lib-art.com/artgallery/13889-st-ur...mling.html

Cheers,

DT

This you shall know, that all things have length and measure.

Free Scholar/ Instructor Selohaar Fechtschule
The Historic Recrudescence Guild

"Yea though I walk through the valley of death, I will fear no evil: for Thou's sword art is with me; Thy poleaxe and Thy quarterstaff they comfort me."
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Robert Hinds




Location: Whitewater, Wisconsin USA
Joined: 15 Sep 2010
Likes: 4 pages

Posts: 245

PostPosted: Fri 15 Oct, 2010 9:41 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you for all your help, and david those memling plates are pretty kool, I like the amount detail in them.
"Young knight, learn to love God and revere women; thus your honor will grow. Practice knighthood and learn the Art that dignifies you, and brings you honor in wars." -Johannes Liechtenauer

"...And he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one..." Luke 22:36
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Zac Evans




Location: London
Joined: 26 Dec 2006

Posts: 151

PostPosted: Fri 15 Oct, 2010 11:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

David Teague wrote:
One of my favorite period sources, Hans Memling. The Martyrdom of St. Ursula's Companions and The Martyrdom of St. Ursula circa 1489


High res below. (just click on the plates for the large size view)

Plate 5 http://www.lib-art.com/artgallery/13888-st-ur...mling.html

Plate 6 http://www.lib-art.com/artgallery/13889-st-ur...mling.html

Cheers,

DT


Although be aware that a couple of those things are possibly "al romantica" to make it look old fashioned.

This website it in german:

http://www.diu-minnezit.de/indexfrm.php?tid=4

but the galleries are awesome, and show the images the stuff is based on too.
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Hendrik De Coster




Location: Belgium
Joined: 20 Jan 2007

Posts: 115

PostPosted: Fri 15 Oct, 2010 11:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Zac Evans wrote:
Although be aware that a couple of those things are possibly "al romantica" to make it look old fashioned.

This website it in german:

http://www.diu-minnezit.de/indexfrm.php?tid=4

but the galleries are awesome, and show the images the stuff is based on too.

that last link is jens borners' website, if you like it you should also check out this website;
http://www.reichsaufgebot.de/
Wink
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Mark T




PostPosted: Fri 15 Oct, 2010 3:45 pm    Post subject: A couple of sources ...         Reply with quote

Hi Robert,

Are you wanting to portray someone in the WOTR specifically, or are wanting to portray someone in the 15th C, and the WOTR seems like a good place to start? If you're going for WOTR, then that's a clear beginning point; if you're after the 15th C more broadly, then it's worth thinking through what time period and what culture, as the clothing, weapons, armour, etc will vary a lot. One option that many of us have taken is to 'reverse engineer' things and get an idea of the kind of kit you like, and then decide that you're from 'x' time in 'y' culture on the back of that ...

Anyway, there are a few really good 15th C threads here on myA - search for '15th' and you'll find them. Failing that, many threads that have posts by Ben van Koert or Aaron Schnatterly here will probably have some relevant things - their kits have inspired many of us - so use the search tool to find posts by them, and just browse promising thread names.

For living history groups, check out:


There's also the '15th C. Thugz! Show us your kit!' thread over at The Armour Archive: http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/viewto...ight=thugz ... while some of the examples are SCA nightmares, there are also some fantastic pics - well worth weeding through.

For historical images online , check out:


For books with good images, check out:
    Venus and mars: The world of the medieval housebook - still available from a few places secondhand: http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults...=0&y=0
    Artists and warfare in the renaissanace, J.R. Hale (New Haven, Yale University Press, 1990). The book contains 345 images from the mid-15th to mid-16th centuries, and focusses on Germanic and Italian sources, and goes into a lot of detail about the differences between each.
    Die Welt der Schweitzer Bilderchroniken, Carl Pfaff is an amazing source that probably isn't as well-known as it should be.
    Medieval military costume recreated in colour photographs, Gerry Embleton (Ramsbury, Crowood Press, 2000) has some good living history examples - alhtough, like Embleton's The medieval soldier, previously recommended, some of the potrayals are not accurate - however, like Scott, these are two of my favourite books, are are the best we have at this point, in print, at least.


Most of the above are German / HRE-related sources, rather than WOTR-specific. There are some WOTR threads here, too, so do a search for them. You could also check out the UK site www.livinghistory.uk

Of course, Osprey have a lot of 15th C titles, including a few WOTR ones ... some will have good historical images, while some of the illustrators' renditions are better than others.

That should keep you going for a good couple of weeks! Happy

Chief Librarian/Curator, Isaac Leibowitz Librarmoury

Schallern sind sehr sexy!


Last edited by Mark T on Fri 15 Oct, 2010 7:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Robert Hinds




Location: Whitewater, Wisconsin USA
Joined: 15 Sep 2010
Likes: 4 pages

Posts: 245

PostPosted: Fri 15 Oct, 2010 4:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Im specifically going for WOTR commoner infantry circa. 1470'ish, and i'd like to be able to maybe cross it over whenever I feel like it to a german foot soldier from the same period, so I can use a grosse messer. But I mainly want an english kit.

What exactly would you call a foot soldier with a glaive and a back up weapon of sword and buckler or longsword, that would be lightly armed with jack chains, breast plate and sallet? I know theres archers, bill men and men-at-arms but my kit idea doesn't really fit into any of those...

Thanks for all the links it's gonna take me awhile to check them all out. Happy

"Young knight, learn to love God and revere women; thus your honor will grow. Practice knighthood and learn the Art that dignifies you, and brings you honor in wars." -Johannes Liechtenauer

"...And he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one..." Luke 22:36
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David Teague




Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Joined: 25 Jan 2004

Posts: 409

PostPosted: Fri 15 Oct, 2010 6:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Robert Hinds wrote:
What exactly would you call a foot soldier with a glaive and a back up weapon of sword and buckler or longsword, that would be lightly armed with jack chains, breast plate and sallet? I know theres archers, bill men and men-at-arms but my kit idea doesn't really fit into any of those...

Thanks for all the links it's gonna take me awhile to check them all out. Happy


Billman:a glave is a type of polearm.

This you shall know, that all things have length and measure.

Free Scholar/ Instructor Selohaar Fechtschule
The Historic Recrudescence Guild

"Yea though I walk through the valley of death, I will fear no evil: for Thou's sword art is with me; Thy poleaxe and Thy quarterstaff they comfort me."
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Robert Hinds




Location: Whitewater, Wisconsin USA
Joined: 15 Sep 2010
Likes: 4 pages

Posts: 245

PostPosted: Fri 15 Oct, 2010 6:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ahh thanks, I thought billman only applied to people who weilded bills. It's nice to know the class I want to portray now, lol.
"Young knight, learn to love God and revere women; thus your honor will grow. Practice knighthood and learn the Art that dignifies you, and brings you honor in wars." -Johannes Liechtenauer

"...And he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one..." Luke 22:36
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Zac Evans




Location: London
Joined: 26 Dec 2006

Posts: 151

PostPosted: Sat 16 Oct, 2010 2:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hendrik De Coster wrote:
Zac Evans wrote:
Although be aware that a couple of those things are possibly "al romantica" to make it look old fashioned.

This website it in german:

http://www.diu-minnezit.de/indexfrm.php?tid=4

but the galleries are awesome, and show the images the stuff is based on too.

that last link is jens borners' website, if you like it you should also check out this website;
http://www.reichsaufgebot.de/
Wink


Now that was silly. The more of these websites I see the more i want to go invade europe. Why are you guys so much better at living history than us in England?
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Lafayette C Curtis




Location: Indonesia
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 2,689

PostPosted: Sun 17 Oct, 2010 1:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Robert Hinds wrote:
Ahh thanks, I thought billman only applied to people who weilded bills. It's nice to know the class I want to portray now, lol.


Technically, it does. But you'd be splitting hairs if you follow this classification too strictly, since halberdiers, billmen, and voulgiers all over the place--as well as other local variations--not only used their weapons in similar ways but also generally had similar standards of equipment throughout Europe. The variations we see are mostly minor and local.

Incidentally, I've seen the word "glaivemen" being used to describe certain glaive-wielding soldiers in Burgundian illustrations. It's probably a modern term but I doubt that anyone would object to your usage of it as long as you don't insist on using it exclusively as if it was a term with perfect and incontrovertible historical provenance.
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Robert Hinds




Location: Whitewater, Wisconsin USA
Joined: 15 Sep 2010
Likes: 4 pages

Posts: 245

PostPosted: Sun 17 Oct, 2010 5:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

cool, thanks for making that 100% clear to me.
"Young knight, learn to love God and revere women; thus your honor will grow. Practice knighthood and learn the Art that dignifies you, and brings you honor in wars." -Johannes Liechtenauer

"...And he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one..." Luke 22:36
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