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Greg Coffman




Location: Lubbock, TX
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PostPosted: Sun 10 Oct, 2010 6:40 pm    Post subject: ARMA inducted into the World Martial Arts Untion         Reply with quote

http://www.thearma.org/WoMAU2010.html

This happened very recently although people had been working on it for quite some time. We are quite excited about it, and it should benefit the whole community and not just ARMA.

The name MARE, Martial Arts of Renaissance Europe, was chosen to represent this art to the larger martial art community.

Greg Coffman

For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
-Hebrews 4:12
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Allen Foster





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PostPosted: Sun 10 Oct, 2010 7:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Congratulations to ARMA. The designation is well deserved and represents the hard work of many. Keep up the good work!
"Rise up, O Lord, and may thy enemies be dispersed and those who hate thee be driven from thy face."
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Reinier van Noort





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PostPosted: Mon 11 Oct, 2010 2:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Congratulations. It is good to see that ARMA finally found its place together with other important, and definitely historical Martial Arts of Renaissance Europe such as Hwaran Mudosul:

http://womau.com/xe/642
http://www.flickr.com/photos/enjoyphoto/2759584906/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/enjoyphoto/2759585508

School voor Historische Schermkunsten

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Thomas R.




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PostPosted: Mon 11 Oct, 2010 11:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

"The ARMA is now the official representative for the martial arts of Renaissance Europe to the World Martial Arts Union (WoMAU). Under the official patronage of UNESCO, the WoMAU is a Non-Governmental Organization for sustaining Intangible Cultural Heritage."

I have a feeling, that most of the german fencing groups don't think, John Clements can represent either them nor the art of european historical fencing in any union or NGO. Representing the ARMA - okay, but not the art.

Just my two cents,
Thomas

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Johann M




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PostPosted: Tue 12 Oct, 2010 5:30 am    Post subject: Re: ARMA inducted into the World Martial Arts Untion         Reply with quote

Greg Coffman wrote:
The name MARE, Martial Arts of Renaissance Europe, was chosen to represent this art to the larger martial art community.


Yeah, thanks for consulting the rest of us on that and that mare of a name WTF?!
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Tue 12 Oct, 2010 8:35 am    Post subject: Re: ARMA inducted into the World Martial Arts Untion         Reply with quote

Johann M wrote:
Greg Coffman wrote:
The name MARE, Martial Arts of Renaissance Europe, was chosen to represent this art to the larger martial art community.


Yeah, thanks for consulting the rest of us on that and that mare of a name WTF?!


Well I can predict some " disturbance in the force " although I'm not attached to any organizations and don't really care to be a " disciple " of anybody. Wink
http://www.entertonement.com/clips/dvrbzzdyjq...-the-Force

Might not be so bad as far as ARMA itself is concerned but I seem to have read numerous things suggesting that not everyone is a fan of John Clements for a variety of reasons but mostly personality clashes.

Now, I can see problems of an organization choosing for others who their representative is supposed to be when they belong to other groups who don't get along.

In any case my take on things is that we are all students of the period arts but are not obliged to follow anyone we don't freely choose to follow out of respect for their skill and teaching skills and because we believe that they know more than we do and are worth listening to or something as simple as liking them or not or their way of teaching: M. Clements may well be the choice of many but certainly not of all and certainly not if imposed from " above " on the unwilling to follow.

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Thomas R.




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PostPosted: Tue 12 Oct, 2010 10:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Astounding it is, your understanding of the force, master Thibodeau. Happy
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Tue 12 Oct, 2010 10:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'd very much like to keep the politics of other groups and sites off of myArmoury.com. Given that this concern is stated in our rules, you all should very much like to do that as well.
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Steven H




Location: Boston
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PostPosted: Tue 12 Oct, 2010 11:38 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What is the World Martial Arts Union? And does MARE representation with them effect the community?

I was able to find little information about the organization.

Thanks,
Steven

Kunstbruder - Boston area Historical Combat Study
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David Teague




Location: Anchorage, Alaska
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PostPosted: Tue 12 Oct, 2010 11:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Steven H wrote:
What is the World Martial Arts Union? And does MARE representation with them effect the community?

I was able to find little information about the organization.

Thanks,
Steven


Hello Steven,

What I can tell is that there is a "sub UN non profit enity" that none of us had heard of that WMA/HEMA now had now has a voice in by someone not elected or selected the the loose confab of Europian historic fencers worldwide.

A person who has withdrawn from the "WMA/HEMA" comunity at large years ago now will represent us in this body.

He is representing our martial arts under a new name (MARE) selected by himself and maybe a few others within his own group.

I'm hoping for a cute seahorse in the logo. It will make a nice t-shirt if it does. Beyond that, I have no clue what this means to us as a whole.

Cheers,

David

This you shall know, that all things have length and measure.

Free Scholar/ Instructor Selohaar Fechtschule
The Historic Recrudescence Guild

"Yea though I walk through the valley of death, I will fear no evil: for Thou's sword art is with me; Thy poleaxe and Thy quarterstaff they comfort me."
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P. Cha




PostPosted: Tue 12 Oct, 2010 12:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I suspect that what we do with our individual groups or with our various group meet up will change not one wit. Not like they can actually make us stop what we are doing.
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P. Cha




PostPosted: Tue 12 Oct, 2010 12:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
The martial arts of a people is an important part of the cultural heritage of that people.

Such martial arts, just like any other cultural heritage, should be preserved. Nevertheless, some of the traditional martial arts are sadly on the "endangered list".

Some of them are already lost to the history, and some others are gradually but unknowingly receding into oblivion. Urgent is the need to make earnest efforts to stop the slippage and to try to preserve these cultural heritage of us all.

Chungju, the ancient home of the oldest Korean martial arts tradition of Taekgyeon, to organize and play host to the first World Martial Arts Festival. in 1998. We have just witnessed the tenth annual event. The year 1998 will be remembered as a landmark-year by all those who are interested in or have a attachment for the martial arts. In October this year, created there was one more such landmark. The birth of the World Martial Arts Union(WoMAU) marked another turning point in the joint efforts of the world martial arts community. Representatives of 28 national martial arts organizations from 26 countries met in Chungju on October 1-2, at the time of the fifth Festival, and signed an agreement launching WoMAU. Upon signing the agreement, the representatives expressed their strong hope that the organization they were launching would effectively promote cooperation among its members and also would give Chungju World Martial Arts Festival international support so that it might grow into a major international event showing all things of martial arts.

The WoMAU membership is open to all national and international martial arts organizations. Those that are not member yet are invited to join it. Martial arts do have many potentials to contribute to the bodily as well as the mental health of individual person and society and by extension to the peace of the world. For these reasons alone, the members of the world martial arts community are well advised to cooperate among them. I am positive about the increased role of Chungju World Martial Arts Festival and WoMAU to play for the advancement of all of these.

Thank you for having read this message and wish you well.


President
ByungYong SOH
Ambassador(ret.)



That is what I found on their website...which is actually kinda hard to find as I had to go from a hap ki kwan page to get it it. The site that shows up on a google search is a spyware site. So it looks like an anyone can join and be a member group and less of any sort of regulatory or authoritive body that the article make them out to be.

Anyways the website for this unheard of group if anyone is interested is

http://www.womau.com/

So basically carry on as you have been everybody, it really doesn't change anything. And if you really don't want clements representing your group, just join up...assuming your a big enough group as they seem to be interested in nartional level groups only.
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Craig Shackleton




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PostPosted: Tue 12 Oct, 2010 12:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think that this can mostly only be a good thing. At some level, it raises the profile and recognition of what we do. At the same time, those of us not tied to ARMA don't need to be bound by or to anything, and the WoMAU doesn't have the authority to regulate or really negatively influence anything we do.

Personally I'm not keen on the new name MARE as a general term, since that doesn't cover some of the sources I work with. But I don't need to adopt that either.

But any WMA/HEMA/MARE/whatever group getting some recognition is a high tide that raises all ships.

I second the seahorse T-shirt idea. Nicely played Mr. Teague!

Ottawa Swordplay
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Christopher Valli
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PostPosted: Tue 12 Oct, 2010 1:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

All I can say (or going to say on public forum) is why don't people really think about these names before they decide on them?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mare

It is good to see acknowledgment of our combat art from other organizations, even if it's one no one has ever heard of before.

Asst Instructor, Selohaar Fechtschule

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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Tue 12 Oct, 2010 1:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Christopher Valli wrote:
All I can say (or going to say on public forum) is why don't people really think about these names before they decide on them?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mare



Yeah, unfortunate there with the name: Doesn't anyone think of Googling a name first just to see what it might also be applied to ?

In any case maybe this Topic should be taken to private conversations P.M. or e-mails or just continue treading lightly. Wink Question

I think some real issues could be discussed here but the risks/odds of the Topic turning sour are very high and Nathan has already told us how unwelcome bringing in the politics of other groups and Forum are here i.e. flame wars are only fun on other people's sites. Wink So, lets either drop it " here " or be very careful to stay moderate in our comments.

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Vincent Le Chevalier




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PostPosted: Tue 12 Oct, 2010 3:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Yeah, unfortunate there with the name: Doesn't anyone think of Googling a name first just to see what it might also be applied to ?

Actually I would have thought that googling wouldn't have been necessary for a native English speaker, is that such a rare word in English?

Regards,

--
Vincent
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David Teague




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PostPosted: Tue 12 Oct, 2010 4:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Vincent Le Chevalier wrote:
Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Yeah, unfortunate there with the name: Doesn't anyone think of Googling a name first just to see what it might also be applied to ?

Actually I would have thought that googling wouldn't have been necessary for a native English speaker, is that such a rare word in English?

Regards,


Hello All,

I must say that in today's slang filled world the best thing you can do is run any potential group/company name though Google and Urban Dictionary or you just might end up rather surprised.

MARE/HEMA/WMA each have issues within our worldwide community... but then again, I belong to a group named the Historic Recrudescence Guild so I guess I really don't have a valid complaint over names Blush

So, In closing. Congratulations to John Clements and ARMA for achieving a membership with in this larger MA community.

Cheers,

David

This you shall know, that all things have length and measure.

Free Scholar/ Instructor Selohaar Fechtschule
The Historic Recrudescence Guild

"Yea though I walk through the valley of death, I will fear no evil: for Thou's sword art is with me; Thy poleaxe and Thy quarterstaff they comfort me."
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William Carew




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PostPosted: Tue 12 Oct, 2010 4:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Vincent Le Chevalier wrote:
Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Yeah, unfortunate there with the name: Doesn't anyone think of Googling a name first just to see what it might also be applied to ?

Actually I would have thought that googling wouldn't have been necessary for a native English speaker, is that such a rare word in English?

Regards,


Hi Vincent

You're right, any semi-educated English speaker knows what a mare is. I don't understand this obsession with trying to find the perfect acronym and re-defining terms that already have buy-in.

For e.g. "HEMA" is already widely used and understood within the community, wheras the new proposed term "MARE" adds absolutely nothing of value and actually artificially excludes both pre- and post-Renaissance methods - this reflects the self-chosen bias of ARMA and its director and certainly does not represent the rest of the HEMA community, many of whom practice medieval, baroque and enlightenment (not to mention Classical Fencing) methods alongside Renaissance ones.

Quite frankly, all the navel gazing and time expended on trying to redefine terms (when perfectly adequate ones already exist - e.g. HEMA, WMA, HES, HF etc) would be better spent with swords in hand, training. EMMV.

Cheers

Bill

Bill Carew
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Greg Coffman




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PostPosted: Tue 12 Oct, 2010 5:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Craig Shackleton wrote:
At some level, it raises the profile and recognition of what we do. At the same time, those of us not tied to ARMA don't need to be bound by or to anything, and the WoMAU doesn't have the authority to regulate or really negatively influence anything we do.


I think this is correct. There is some additional international awareness of our European martial heritage, but only among a group of people we weren't aware of to begin with. What benefit this will be to ARMA and to the rest of the HEMA/WMA world is yet to be seen. But it doesn't really affect most of you at all, and that's fine too.

MARE, Martial Arts of Renaissance Europe is what we do in ARMA, and no, it doesn't comprise the whole of HEMA/WMA.

Greg Coffman

For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
-Hebrews 4:12
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Max Chouinard




Location: Quebec, Qc
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PostPosted: Tue 12 Oct, 2010 5:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have already written elsewhere how dubious this organization seems to me. Based on their visibly weak membership criteria, I don't see how becoming a member can be useful. It seems that the poor knowledge of the leaders of this Union have doomed it to become another "sokeship council", but this time with ties to the UNESCO. I personally think that WoMAU should review its goals, while their selection in every other country seems quite decent, for some reason in the European one, on 12 arts, 8 (and possibly 9 as I have no idea what this mysterious RUMA is) have nothing to do with the culture that they wish to represent apart from gaudy national costumes, dubious historical connections (if any) and a name. Maybe if all the legit arts of Europe joined they could change things from the inside, but I feel they would already be outnumbered.

I could do samba in a traditional Quebec costume, change the name and add a few jig steps. But I could not go to the UNESCO and ask to be recognized as a world intangible heritage. Ethnologists all over would simply obliterate me. But because there are so few scholars seriously researching martial arts, we have Hwaran Mudosul being recognized as one. I'd like to see what documents they submitted to get the approval...

I think the phrase that describes the situation best is this one taken from Bulgarian Kempo (...): "in the real essence of "Bulkempo" there are no winners."

Maxime Chouinard

Antrim Bata

Quebec City Kenjutsu

I don't do longsword
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