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Stefan Rasmussen




Location: Denmark
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PostPosted: Sun 10 Oct, 2010 12:49 pm    Post subject: Travelling in armour!         Reply with quote

Hi. . .this is mostly for fun, but still everything taken in consideration, quite a discussion.

What kind of armour would you wear, If you had to travel by foot, but still had to be as well protected as possible, and able to fight? This should be european armour 1250-1650.

Pain can be controlled
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Blaz Berlec




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PostPosted: Sun 10 Oct, 2010 1:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wow, that's covering a lot of different types of armours and threats...

Extant 15th Century German Gothic Armour
Extant 15th century Milanese armour
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Stefan Rasmussen




Location: Denmark
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PostPosted: Sun 10 Oct, 2010 1:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes it certainly does. . .See it kind a like "the fellowship of the ring" trip. . .You have to be able to travle by foot, move fast and fight, but also be as protected as the circumstances allow.
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Thomas R.




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PostPosted: Sun 10 Oct, 2010 1:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sword, Buckler and a cloak. Everything else will slow you down, I guess.

And two men with crossbows ;o) in case of agressive negotiations.

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Stefan Rasmussen




Location: Denmark
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PostPosted: Sun 10 Oct, 2010 1:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

No kind of armour at all? Not even a jack or a gambason?
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Stefan Rasmussen, DK
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Thomas R.




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PostPosted: Sun 10 Oct, 2010 1:51 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Did you ever run or marched in a gambeson for a while? You will sweat like hell, and it's heavy. It will definately slow your progress. If fast movement is your goal, go without one.
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Sun 10 Oct, 2010 1:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Light maille shirt down to mid thigh with slightly longer than elbow length sleeves, with possibly a brigantine over the maille shirt if it's not in very hot weather. ( Comfortable and flexible for all day every day wear ).

High leather booth and maybe " archer's knees " ( Knee cops with a few lames above and below the cop )

Wisby styled gauntlets because they fold up more compactly than later plate gauntlets and can be carried in one's pack when not worn or under one's belt.

Cervelière with coif ( Cervelière would be worn under the coif ) also easy to carry in one's pack as a compact bundle.

If low profile is wanted most of the armour can be under clothing or at least hard to see from a distance.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Stefan Rasmussen




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PostPosted: Sun 10 Oct, 2010 2:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes I actually have. . .I'v done a lot of larp using what ever kits i had laying around, including some kind of gambeson, maille, helmet, sometimes arm and leg guards, or even full arms and legs. I can run in it, also for a whole day, but it is hard Happy
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Stefan Rasmussen, DK
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Stefan Rasmussen




Location: Denmark
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PostPosted: Sun 10 Oct, 2010 2:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Light maille shirt down to mid thigh with slightly longer than elbow length sleeves, with possibly a brigantine over the maille shirt if it's not in very hot weather. ( Comfortable and flexible for all day every day wear ).

High leather booth and maybe " archer's knees " ( Knee cops with a few lames above and below the cop )

Wisby styled gauntlets because they fold up more compactly than later plate gauntlets and can be carried in one's pack when not worn or under one's belt.

Cervelière with coif ( Cervelière would be worn under the coif ) also easy to carry in one's pack as a compact bundle.

If low profile is wanted most of the armour can be under clothing or at least hard to see from a distance.


Hmm yes sounds rather reasonably I guess. . .

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Thomas R.




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PostPosted: Sun 10 Oct, 2010 2:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sure, one can run, even march a whole day, but you will make faster progress without. We shouldn't image medieval times like modern movies, in which the bad guys come in full armor to get your posessions while traveling. You always have to ask yourself which threats are to come? If I go to war, then I'll get whatever armor I can get hold of.

If I am to expect armored men on my way, I would go with Jean's suggestion. But if I am just traveling along from one city to another... Sword and buckler should be suitable enaught, I guess, to fend off some wolvesheads and outlaws. If they have bows, even a jack or a mail shirt won't do any good - so why carry it the whole way? Big Grin

Thomas

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Stefan Rasmussen




Location: Denmark
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PostPosted: Sun 10 Oct, 2010 2:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thomas R. wrote:
Sure, one can run, even march a whole day, but you will make faster progress without. We shouldn't image medieval times like modern movies, in which the bad guys come in full armor to get your posessions while traveling. You always have to ask yourself which threats are to come? If I go to war, then I'll get whatever armor I can get hold of.

If I am to expect armored men on my way, I would go with Jean's suggestion. But if I am just traveling along from one city to another... Sword and buckler should be suitable enaught, I guess, to fend off some wolvesheads and outlaws. If they have bows, even a jack or a mail shirt won't do any good - so why carry it the whole way? Big Grin

Thomas


Yeah your right about that. . .I've been very positivly supprised by the effectiveness of cloth armour, also by my teams own tests. Just a single layer of tight wowen linnen or flax? (Don't know the excact word for "Hør" in danish) was very hard to cut through, where as a jack consisting of about 30 layers was more or less allmost immune to swordcuts and stabs:S

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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Sun 10 Oct, 2010 2:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If I had to cut back to absolute minimum and still wear armour I would just keep the maille shirt, Cervelière and maybe the coif.

Then there are the weapons:

A) Spear, one handed sword of medium to short length, rondel dagger, buckler and maybe a small axe for weapon ( throwing & close quarter fighting ) and utility use, + a smaller dagger than the rondel with sharp edges and a utility knife.

OR

B) If no spear then a longsword instead and maybe a mace or warhammer in place of the axe as a backup weapon and maybe a cinquedea the other weapons being the same. ( Buckler, rondel, small dagger, utility knife ).

As a default missile weapon I would take a sling because it takes up no room and weighs next to nothing ( I would assume actual skill with the sling that I don't actually have. Wink ).

A bow would also be an option if the primary weapon was the longsword.
( Spear and bow would tend to be too much to carry ).

If in a small armed group then a mix of weapons with at least half using a bow as their primary weapon

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Stefan Rasmussen




Location: Denmark
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Posts: 19

PostPosted: Sun 10 Oct, 2010 2:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
If I had to cut back to absolute minimum and still wear armour I would just keep the maille shirt, Cervelière and maybe the coif.

Then there are the weapons:

A) Spear, one handed sword of medium to short length, rondel dagger, buckler and maybe a small axe for weapon ( throwing & close quarter fighting ) and utility use, + a smaller dagger than the rondel with sharp edges and a utility knife.

OR

B) If no spear then a longsword instead and maybe a mace or warhammer in place of the axe as a backup weapon and maybe a cinquedea the other weapons being the same. ( Buckler, rondel, small dagger, utility knife ).

As a default missile weapon I would take a sling because it takes up no room and weighs next to nothing ( I would assume actual skill with the sling that I don't actually have. Wink ).

A bow would also be an option if the primary weapon was the longsword.
( Spear and bow would tend to be too much to carry ).

If in a small armed group then a mix of weapons with at least half using a bow as their primary weapon


I love the longsword, and it's techniques, but I also belive in a buckler and a short weapon. We have lot's of viking reenactmet groups here in Denmark(Very strange huh!) By they almost always use a small rimed shild and short weapons, and they litteraly kick knight ass.They move alot faster, their shields easiy take a longsword, and wupti they take them down. Even when they are largely outnumbered Happy

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Thomas R.




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PostPosted: Sun 10 Oct, 2010 2:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean,

this sounds, as if you are planning every evening a small crusade Wink just for fun? Other people do crosswords, I guess.
I like your arsenal, and will add gladly a dagger of some sort to my suggestion. Happy

Good night everyone!

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Stefan Rasmussen




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PostPosted: Sun 10 Oct, 2010 2:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thomas R. wrote:
Jean,

this sounds, as if you are planning every evening a small crusade Wink just for fun? Other people do crosswords, I guess.
I like your arsenal, and will add gladly a dagger of some sort to my suggestion. Happy

Good night everyone!


Well. . .He's retired and lazy right. . .now we know where he puts all his effort Happy

Pain can be controlled
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Sun 10 Oct, 2010 3:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Another option is cervelière, steel rotella and a mace or warhammer the sword being a backup better used against those who are lightly armoured or not armoured at all: The mace can take care of armour and the steel rotella makes the swordsman's job very difficult as he would have to stop you dead very quickly as you could close in to very close range with the protection of the rotella and be able to do some real damage with the mace no matter how well armoured.

In this case even the maille shirt could be dispensed with as the steel rotella can do most of the job of protecting the body.

I've duelled against short sword (one handed sword ) and buckler using longsword and I could often win the fight by winding on the one handed sword or the rim of the buckler.

Sword and buckler is very challenging if they can close the distance before the longswordsman can kill or incapacitate the sword and buckler guy. ( I say guy but one of my most challenging and fun opponents was a woman ).

There is not much out there about mace or warhammer technique but it should have a great deal in common with short axe fighting. ( Sort of obsessing about this since I got my A&A spiked mace and my imagining how I would adapt sword and buckler, staff, dagger or longsword techniques ).

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Mikko Kuusirati




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PostPosted: Sun 10 Oct, 2010 3:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Given the rather expansive time range, I'd actually go for a breastplate rather than maille - far easier to maintain on the road, for one. Let's say a jack with chains underneath, and a light open helmet of some kind. That is, if I had reason to expect overt violence along the way, otherwise I'd just travel light and view armour as unnecessary baggage (as, you'll note, did the heroes in LotR - Frodo is the only one of the nine who went armoured except when specifically geared up for an upcoming battle, and his armour was made of unobtanium so it doesn't count, either).

But most importantly, good, sturdy boots. It's impossible to overestimate the importance of good boots when traveling on foot. Neglecting proper footwear is a mistake you make only once, because it freaking hurts.

Thomas R. wrote:
Jean,

this sounds, as if you are planning every evening a small crusade Wink just for fun?

There are people who don't? WTF?!

The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
Rush in and die, dogs -- I was a man before I was a king.
-- R. E. Howard, The Road of Kings
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Stefan Rasmussen




Location: Denmark
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PostPosted: Sun 10 Oct, 2010 3:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Another option is cervelière, steel rotella and a mace or warhammer the sword being a backup better used against those who are lightly armoured or not armoured at all: The mace can take care of armour and the steel rotella makes the swordsman's job very difficult as he would have to stop you dead very quickly as you could close in to very close range with the protection of the rotella and be able to do some real damage with the mace no matter how well armoured.

In this case even the maille shirt could be dispensed with as the steel rotella can do most of the job of protecting the body.

I've duelled against short sword (one handed sword ) and buckler using longsword and I could often win the fight by winding on the one handed sword or the rim of the buckler.

Sword and buckler is very challenging if they can close the distance before the longswordsman can kill or incapacitate the sword and buckler guy. ( I say guy but one of my most challenging and fun opponents was a woman ).

There is not much out there about mace or warhammer technique but it should have a great deal in common with short axe fighting. ( Sort of obsessing about this since I got my A&A spiked mace and my imagining how I would adapt sword and buckler, staff, dagger or longsword techniques ).


What excatly is a "Rotella"? Never heard that befor. . .Sounds like some kind of shield perhaps? You have any good pics? Google ain't happy about "Rotella".

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Mikko Kuusirati




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PostPosted: Sun 10 Oct, 2010 3:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Stefan Rasmussen wrote:
Yes I actually have. . .I'v done a lot of larp using what ever kits i had laying around, including some kind of gambeson, maille, helmet, sometimes arm and leg guards, or even full arms and legs. I can run in it, also for a whole day, but it is hard Happy

Now imagine doing that the whole day, every day, for several weeks or months in a row...

Going all day is a lot easier when you know you won't have to do it again tomorrow. Happy

The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
Rush in and die, dogs -- I was a man before I was a king.
-- R. E. Howard, The Road of Kings
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Mikko Kuusirati




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PostPosted: Sun 10 Oct, 2010 3:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Stefan Rasmussen wrote:
What excatly is a "Rotella"? Never heard that befor. . .Sounds like some kind of shield perhaps? You have any good pics? Google ain't happy about "Rotella".

A round shield. Like this:




The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
Rush in and die, dogs -- I was a man before I was a king.
-- R. E. Howard, The Road of Kings
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