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Jaroslav Kravcak




Location: Slovakia
Joined: 22 Apr 2006

Posts: 123

PostPosted: Sun 10 Oct, 2010 10:17 am    Post subject: Battle of St. Jakob an der Birs         Reply with quote

Good day. Happy

Im interested in details of this battle and would like to ask someone with knowledge about it if he couldnt describe it in greater detail if its possible.

My main questions would be:

-composition of french army
-how the battle itself was played out
-casualties on both sides
-how much of this can be found in contemporary sources and if there are big differences in them
-if there ever was any research conducted that would form a good base of knowledge about it

I was looking for some reading about it but it isnt very abundant.

Thx for any help or information. Happy
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Jaroslav Kravcak




Location: Slovakia
Joined: 22 Apr 2006

Posts: 123

PostPosted: Sun 17 Oct, 2010 12:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Anyone? Happy

There are many people here with great and detailed knowledge its allways pleasure to read history discussions. Theres allwas something new to be found there.
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Benjamin H. Abbott




Location: New Mexico
Joined: 28 Feb 2004

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,191

PostPosted: Sun 17 Oct, 2010 12:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The traditional narrative has around fifteen hundred Swiss primarily armed with pikes advancing across a river to attack a French force of twenty to forty thousand. The Swiss fight fiercely against opposing heavy cavalry but eventually withdraw to a stronghold where the French artillery takes a heavy toll. They resist to the last man when the French storm the stronghold. Three or four thousand French perished in the battle. It's an amazing story and almost unbelievable. I don't anything about the period sources, unfortunately.
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Bryce Felperin




Location: San Jose, CA
Joined: 16 Feb 2006

Posts: 552

PostPosted: Mon 18 Oct, 2010 10:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Found this on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_St._Ja...url][/url]
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Perry L. Goss




Location: Missouri
Joined: 15 May 2004
Likes: 2 pages

Posts: 109

PostPosted: Mon 18 Oct, 2010 12:12 pm    Post subject: Battle of St. Jakob an der Birs         Reply with quote

Jaroslav:

From what I recall - you have the basics correct. Supposedly the Goss were there, supposedly. Coat of Arms is nothing more than...a masonry wall!

Anyway, I think Osprey had something on them in their book on the Swiss? I contacted the Swiss Embassy and others and got some info - years ago. Not much though, as I did not pursue it with due diligence. Sorry.

Interesting topic though.

Thank you!

Scottish: Ballentine, Black, Cameron, Chisholm, Cunningham, Crawford, Grant, Jaffray, MacFarlane, MacGillivray, MacKay-Reay/Strathnaver, Munro, Robertson, Sinclair, Wallace

Irish/Welsh: Bodkin, Mendenhall, Hackworth

Swiss: Goss von Rothenfluh, Naff von Zurich und Solland von Appenzel
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Perry L. Goss




Location: Missouri
Joined: 15 May 2004
Likes: 2 pages

Posts: 109

PostPosted: Mon 18 Oct, 2010 12:16 pm    Post subject: Battle of St. Jakob an der Birs: addendum         Reply with quote

That is "modern" coat of arms, since the Switzer were democratic from what....August 1, 1291! No landed nobility in the Kantons!!!!
Scottish: Ballentine, Black, Cameron, Chisholm, Cunningham, Crawford, Grant, Jaffray, MacFarlane, MacGillivray, MacKay-Reay/Strathnaver, Munro, Robertson, Sinclair, Wallace

Irish/Welsh: Bodkin, Mendenhall, Hackworth

Swiss: Goss von Rothenfluh, Naff von Zurich und Solland von Appenzel
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Jaroslav Kravcak




Location: Slovakia
Joined: 22 Apr 2006

Posts: 123

PostPosted: Mon 18 Oct, 2010 2:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thats shame. Happy

I was interested at most in knowing how exactly could this small force resist so long and cause quite large casualties (Ive seen numbers from 2000 to 9000 for french dead against supposedly little less than 1200 Swiss-almost all present) There still is an option its just exageration.
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Bryce Felperin




Location: San Jose, CA
Joined: 16 Feb 2006

Posts: 552

PostPosted: Mon 18 Oct, 2010 6:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jaroslav Kravcak wrote:
Thats shame. Happy

I was interested at most in knowing how exactly could this small force resist so long and cause quite large casualties (Ive seen numbers from 2000 to 9000 for french dead against supposedly little less than 1200 Swiss-almost all present) There still is an option its just exageration.


Not hard, the Swiss were disciplined and motivated and in good defensive terrain until the artillery weakened them. Their opponents were overconfident because they outnumbered the Swiss and attacked frontally against an enemy in a good defensive position until they got smart and brought the artillery up to soften up the defense. You can find the same elements in many battles throughout history...in other words stupidity.
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