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Lukovic Slobodan




Location: Serbia
Joined: 30 Sep 2010

Posts: 3

PostPosted: Thu 30 Sep, 2010 3:15 am    Post subject: 8th centuty Slavic sword         Reply with quote

For a long time I have been trying to find photos of Ancient Slavic weapons (swords). I was searching 8th and 9th century swords but all I could find were Viking swords from that period.
Does anybody knows where to find it? Please, Send some links, photos...
Thanks:)
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Samuel Bena




Location: Slovakia
Joined: 10 Dec 2007

Posts: 94

PostPosted: Thu 30 Sep, 2010 4:44 am    Post subject: Re: 8th centuty Slavic sword         Reply with quote

Lukovic Slobodan wrote:
For a long time I have been trying to find photos of Ancient Slavic weapons (swords). I was searching 8th and 9th century swords but all I could find were Viking swords from that period.
Does anybody knows where to find it? Please, Send some links, photos...
Thanks:)


Hello Slobodan and welcome to the forum...

I wouldn't necessary put the period of 8-9th centuries as "ancient", rather more in the early medieval context , but than again its a matter of opinion. The swords of rich Slavic warriors and chieftains were within period western-european style (if there is/was such a thing),though probably with some local flavor in decoration. To the best of my knowledge the "viking-scandinavian" weapons were too a part of this trend... see also pictures from this blog http://lukaskrajcir.blog.sme.sk/c/155878/Ako-...rachu.html about village Mikulčice (located on the borderlands between Slovakia and Bohemia/Czech republic) , a great archeological digsite for Great Moravian period (roughly the period of your interest):



Regards,
Samuel
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Lukovic Slobodan




Location: Serbia
Joined: 30 Sep 2010

Posts: 3

PostPosted: Thu 30 Sep, 2010 7:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you very much Samuel. These swords that you sent to me are very similar to pieces i have seen in Belgrade military museum, or in Croatia (which belong to second Slavic migration). When I said ancient I meant prechristian. Sorry for misunderstanding of periods.
I have another question if I am not boring: are they equal in dimensions as "Western European swords"? Some of them seem to be slightly bigger. Were there different standards or just local characteristics.
Thanks:)
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Vaclav Homan




Location: Hradec, Czech
Joined: 22 Jan 2008

Posts: 90

PostPosted: Thu 30 Sep, 2010 8:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hallo Slobodan
There are some swords from 9century with picture from archeaelogical publiacation.
http://lightswords.cz/pages/zbrane.php
Slavic sword was like german neighbour. Blade length 900-750cm and width 47-65mm typology like central europe.

There is only one art of fence yet many ways to reach it
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Samuel Bena




Location: Slovakia
Joined: 10 Dec 2007

Posts: 94

PostPosted: Sat 02 Oct, 2010 7:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Lukovic Slobodan wrote:
Thank you very much Samuel.


You're welcome !

Lukovic Slobodan wrote:

These swords that you sent to me are very similar to pieces i have seen in Belgrade military museum, or in Croatia (which belong to second Slavic migration). When I said ancient I meant prechristian. Sorry for misunderstanding of periods.


No problem , but bear in mind that even in the 9th century Christianity was still a bit "rough around the edges" in the slavic areas.

Lukovic Slobodan wrote:

I have another question if I am not boring:

I don't think you are boring anybody , its quite an intriguing topic imho... Wink

Lukovic Slobodan wrote:

are they equal in dimensions as "Western European swords"? Some of them seem to be slightly bigger. Were there different standards or just local characteristics.
Thanks:)


I assume you mean the earlier "migration/conquest era" then - cca 6-7 centuries (i.e. Samo's realm , "cohabitation" with avars etc.). I don't really know to tell the truth. As far as i know "the ancients" weren't really keen on making much use of swords and if so, they were usually of foreign extraction. Fedegards Chronicle (cca 7th century) mentions that Slavs were buying Frankish weapons against Avars so there must have been some exchange... I also (vaguely) remember reading about one byzantine author that mentioned Slavs taking a great deal of booty (which most likely meant Byzantine weaponry as well) and made "war better than the romans, i.e. byzantines".. or something in that sense (during the period of Byzantine- Slavic/Avar wars and skirmishes). Id say they used whatever they could get their hands on, but thats just my guess.

I'll see if I can track down some relevant literature on the subject , but that might take me some time...

Kind regards,
Samuel
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D. Bell




Location: New Zealand
Joined: 01 May 2004

Posts: 73

PostPosted: Sat 02 Oct, 2010 5:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Anyone interested in these swords, or swords of this period in general should try and get hold of a copy of Lech Marek's "Early Medieval Swords from Central and Eastern Europe".

Most of the swords seem to be similar to those used in the rest of Europe at the time, but there are also some local variations and some incorporate influences from sabres. In regards to size, they seem to have been about the same size as other swords, although there is considerable variation in size in swords from both Western and Eastern Europe.

An armed society is a polite society.
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Lukovic Slobodan




Location: Serbia
Joined: 30 Sep 2010

Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sun 03 Oct, 2010 1:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello,
thanks for replies and book:)
I found many interesting things in http://lukaskrajcir.blog.sme.sk/c/155878/Ako-...rachu.html

Speaking about Byzantine chronicles, I am not sure if we should totally believe them. Some of these say that some Slavic prisoners were taken to the emperor, and they didn't know nothing about weapons or war. (Porphyrogenitos). Or even stranger than that; (Pseudo Mavrikios): "Slavs are fearless and invincible" (but still they live under Byzantine rule:) "but when the bale is over they throw weapons in the forest and go to work on fields.They also have barbaric custom of war. They don't take prisoners, but if they do that one is free to live or get married with them, they only ask ransom for high officials"
It seems to me that Byzantium had many problems with Slavs, (according to my aunt which is historian) they were in constant local wars with Slavs (Serbs. Croats...) so they should have some weapons, but there are so few archeological findings (spears and arrows, mostly). That is why I am interested if they did use swords at all. Perhaps it was great variety of different war techniques and weapons as it was great variety of Slavic tribes and their enemies. I don't know.

Another questions:

1.Are squire line swords made by Albion useful (meaning real swords made of same steal as next generation swords)?

2.Does anybody know good video about sword-smithing but not "The Birth of a Sword" I have seen it?

ps. sorry for my Tarzan English, hope you understand me and not get insulted
Best
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Sun 03 Oct, 2010 1:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Lukovic Slobodan wrote:

1.Are squire line swords made by Albion useful (meaning real swords made of same steal as next generation swords)?



That would be yes they are made at the same steel, heat treatment and quality level of the Next Generation swords but not finished or detailed like the Next Generation swords to make them more affordable.

They are normally unsharpened but can be sharpened on request but they will then have a visible secondary bevel that the Next Generation swords do not have.

( The Next Generation swords have a blended rounded edge in general and intended to be sharps by design ).

The Squire line have unsharpened edges but thinner edges than the dedicated to training Maestro swords so they are less safe to train with but are O.K. if handled with good control: Some people have used them for training and they seem reasonably durable but their main purpose is to offer a less expensive option, be unsharpened for those who want a safer option than a sharp but still have the look of a sharp.

http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/sw...squire.htm

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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team


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PostPosted: Sun 03 Oct, 2010 7:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Lukovic Slobodan wrote:

1.Are squire line swords made by Albion useful (meaning real swords made of same steal as next generation swords)?



We have reviewed several of those on our Reviews page. Feel free to check those out. Happy

Happy

ChadA

http://chadarnow.com/
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Paul Hansen




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
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Posts: 683

PostPosted: Mon 04 Oct, 2010 11:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

My understanding is that Slavic / Moravian swords of the period were exactly the same as the Frankish / Viking swords of the same period. From the limited number that I've seen, it seems that the Moravian swords tend to be on the sober side, so Petersen types H, N etc. (see attachment, which is a scan from Ian Peirce).

One difference seems to be that were Viking swords are typically peened through the upper guard, Moravian swords seem to be peened through the pommel.



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