Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > Metal Clay (?) Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Zach Gordon




Location: Vermont. USA
Joined: 07 Oct 2008

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 214

PostPosted: Fri 17 Sep, 2010 1:15 pm    Post subject: Metal Clay (?)         Reply with quote

Hi
So I went into a craft store the other day, and they had this "chainmail and wire jewelry" magazine and I started looking through it. In the magazine they had an advertisement for metal clay. The ad said it was silver powder, clay stuff, and a bonding agent. You use it like regular clay pretty much, but when you are done you fire it (or use like a blow torch). The clay-stuff and bonding agent melt away leaving 999.9% pure silver.
So my question, cause I havnt heard of this stuff before is:
Is it real?
How long has it been around?
Is it ever used on swords, like hilts and stuff?
Can you use other metals, or only silver?
How hard is it to use?

It sounds pretty freakin awesome if it's real!
Thnx
Z
View user's profile Send private message
Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Likes: 10 pages
Reading list: 13 books

Spotlight topics: 7
Posts: 5,892

PostPosted: Fri 17 Sep, 2010 1:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

http://www.pmcguild.com/pmc.html

CHAPES!

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Cincinnati, OH
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Likes: 21 pages
Reading list: 231 books

Spotlight topics: 15
Posts: 9,132

PostPosted: Fri 17 Sep, 2010 1:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

They have a gold alloy and bronze one as well. Interesting.
Happy

ChadA

http://chadarnow.com/
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Likes: 10 pages
Reading list: 13 books

Spotlight topics: 7
Posts: 5,892

PostPosted: Fri 17 Sep, 2010 1:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If I'm following it correctly, PMC3 is the latest version, with the least shrinkage and lowest fire time/temp (1600+ for ten minutes in kiln, pot or torch). It's not cheap, and it would take awhile to calculate the shrinkage. Still, it opens up great possibilities for, say, decorated dagger chapes.
-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Joined: 17 Sep 2003

Posts: 1,299

PostPosted: Fri 17 Sep, 2010 1:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This sort of product has been around for a couple years, at least. I've never seen it, but from what I recall from those who have tried it, the end result is not nearly as strong as solid metal. It's more like metal powder bonded together, not actually molten and cast to shape. So if you want to make a buckle you may be able to form this clay around a metal base or armature, to get the look from the clay and the strength from the armature. But a buckle made completely from the clay would not be strong enough to be functional.

Chapes might work fine, though! Hmm, and spiffy bronze decorations on Valsgarde helmets, hmmmm......

Matthew
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Julian Reynolds




Location: United Kingdom
Joined: 30 Mar 2008

Posts: 271

PostPosted: Fri 17 Sep, 2010 3:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I looked at bronze clay to make sword/scabbard fittings, and whilst it gives lots of scope for modelling and sculpting, it is effectively bronze (or silver) powder in an organic bonding agent, and even if high fired in a kiln, does not have the structural strength of cast bronze (or silver). I recently got to use silver clay for a jewellery commission - it was easy to sculpt and fired well (with a blowtorch, very cheap and simple), not too difficult to clean up (it goes all white once fired), but it is a very pure form of silver and the end result is not as strong as a casting. But I guess it's well suited to pendants and earrings that don't need to be hugely strong. And yes, it isn't cheap!

Julian
View user's profile Send private message
Reinier van Noort





Joined: 13 Dec 2006

Posts: 165

PostPosted: Sat 18 Sep, 2010 12:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think an important question is how porous and brittle the final product will be.
School voor Historische Schermkunsten

www.bruchius.com
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Michal Plezia
Industry Professional



Location: Poland
Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Likes: 2 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Posts: 585

PostPosted: Sat 18 Sep, 2010 4:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

My brother tested this clay http://www.planetart.pl/sklep/shopping/?id=20...lay%20Blok

It is quite nice to work with, but the pice is rather high.

www.elchon.com

Polish Guild of Knifemakers

The sword is a weapon for killing, the art of the sword is the art of killing. No matter what fancy words you use or what titles you put to
it that is the only truth.
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Ken Nelson




Location: central Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Reading list: 12 books

Posts: 55

PostPosted: Sat 18 Sep, 2010 1:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have worked with PMC for a few years now, mostly for jewelry work. I have found it to be a wonderful material, but like any other material there are advantages and disadvantages. My comments are regarding silver PMC, as that is the one I have worked with the most.

Some of the advantages include being able to shape everything by hand, and change it until you are happy. You can collect and reuse the filings. It makes a great replacement for solder on some parts.

Disadvantages are shrinkage, and cost. it does cost more than strips and sheet of the same material and weight.

The strength is roughly that of cast silver if you have good control of your heat, but if you do not, it will either be weaker, or melt. nice thing is, if a PMC part breaks, just use PMC slip and re-fire it to repair.

Now, as for using it on swords....I have been doing experiments with it to combine it with steel and iron. I was fascinated with some of the old methods of decoration that were done by mixing gold or silver with mercury ad then burning the mercury off. Mercury fumes are one of those things that I do NOT want in my shop. When I first looked into PMC, I thought of using it in a similar way. I have met with varying degrees of success.

If you are going to try, some things to keep in mind:

Keep the steel CLEAN, there is no such thing as too clean, any dirt or oils could cause bonding problems

Heat the piece in an environment as free of oxygen as possible. you need some oxygen to help burn off the organic material, but too much and you will oxidize the steel also causing bonding problems. I have found that a CO2 line to a kiln works well, as does a salt dough covering.

Remember that the PMC shrinks much more than steel. it shrinks as the binder burns off and again as it cools. This is double important if you are using a blade steel. Most steels expand slightly when they are hardened. if you are using it for an inlay in a blade, you must use enough to allow it to shrink and fill in the crevices in the steel, not just cover it.

However, it is really nice when a piece works out well. Attached is a picture of Silblixt, a 480 layer viking blade made for a friend of mine. the lettering in the blade is filled in with PMC2, as the firing temperature for that matched the hardening temperature for the steels used in the blade.



 Attachment: 70.06 KB
silblixtstump.jpg


"Live and learn, or you don't live long" L. Long
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > Metal Clay (?)
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum