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Brawn Barber




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PostPosted: Thu 16 Sep, 2010 7:17 pm    Post subject: Yet another Scale Armour question         Reply with quote

Yes, I heard the group of sighs, but this is fairly specific in nature and venue, and no Dan,...no Vikings

Are there any good references to Syrian, Sarmatian, or Egyptian scale armour which could have been composed exclusively of rawhide scales? I'm specifically looking for scale which exhibits a medial ridge. Yes, picky, I know.

Oriental Armour By H. Russell Robinson has a depiction of Egyptian scale from the 7th Century B.C. citing bronze, but I understand that rawhide was used in conjunction with these. Also he shows Syrian Scale from Nuzi, 5th Century B.C. but does not cite the material used. My problem with Robinson is that he states that the Egyptian scale armour depicted from the wall painting from the tomb of Kenamon, 1436-1411 B.C. had a circular neck protector which was made of leather which is of course, impossible to tell from a wall painting.

Any help would be appreciated.

"Haltet den Kopf unten and den Hammer am Schwingen!"

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Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
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PostPosted: Thu 16 Sep, 2010 10:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

An example was found by Carter in Tut's tomb. It is currently in the Cairo museum. They aren't sure whether it was made from rawhide or oil-cured leather. Thomas Hulit studied it the most and wrote it up in his PhD thesis. He made a replica of this and a bronze example and shot them with arrows.
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Matthew Amt




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PostPosted: Fri 17 Sep, 2010 7:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dan, don't the Nuzi tablets refer to a *lot* of rawhide scale armor? Something like 200 times as many as bronze, if I'm remembering correctly? Probably no references to midribs, though!

I always assumed the neckguard in that fresco was bronze, like the Dendra one. It *looks* like bronze, even has ridges and a flaired rim, I think.

Matthew


PS: Viking scales were always black leather. With studs. Ouch, stop hitting me!
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Brawn Barber




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PostPosted: Fri 17 Sep, 2010 7:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dan: Thanks for the reference. Do you know if there is a readily available image of Hulit's replica?

Matthew: Robinson's image of the Nuzi tablets does show a medial ridge, but then again a corroboration by another reference would be best.

In short, I'm looking for as complete a reconstruction of either, both or any of these.

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Dan Howard




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PostPosted: Sat 18 Sep, 2010 4:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The entire PhD thesis can be downloaded here
http://ethos.bl.uk/OrderDetails.do?did=1&...hos.247577
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Brawn Barber




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PostPosted: Sat 18 Sep, 2010 6:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Matthew Amt wrote:
Dan, don't the Nuzi tablets refer to a *lot* of rawhide scale armor? Something like 200 times as many as bronze, if I'm remembering correctly? Probably no references to midribs, though!

I always assumed the neckguard in that fresco was bronze, like the Dendra one. It *looks* like bronze, even has ridges and a flaired rim, I think.

Matthew


PS: Viking scales were always black leather. With studs. Ouch, stop hitting me!


Thanks Matthew,

My impression of the neckguard was the same. I don't know how he came up with leather.

Dan: Perfect! Thanks...

,,,somehow I thought in this knowledge base there'd be more information forthcoming. Thank you both.

Cheers

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Dan Howard




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PostPosted: Sun 19 Sep, 2010 3:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Matthew Amt wrote:
Dan, don't the Nuzi tablets refer to a *lot* of rawhide scale armor? Something like 200 times as many as bronze, if I'm remembering correctly? Probably no references to midribs, though!

Yep. There were no surviving rawhide scales found at Nuzi but the texts mention plenty of them . They also mention armour made of alternating rows of bronze and rawhide scales.

Quote:
I always assumed the neckguard in that fresco was bronze, like the Dendra one. It *looks* like bronze, even has ridges and a flaired rim, I think.

There is nothing to suggest that these neck guards were made of leather. All of the evidence points to bronze.
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