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Zach Gordon




Location: Vermont. USA
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PostPosted: Wed 15 Sep, 2010 5:58 pm    Post subject: Illusion Armoring-full suit         Reply with quote

Hi
How are http://www.illusionarmoring.com/ full period suits, quality wise? They seem really cheap but look pretty. I know a decent armorer I could pay to fit/fix it. Is it worth doing? I like the 14th century suit most, but I'm fine with any of them. I just want a suit of armor to wear cause I've always wanted one. I can build a kit around one when I get it. I dont really want to spend more then $3500 (prior to fitting/fixing/enhancing by my armorer)
Thnx
Z
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Scott Hrouda




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PostPosted: Wed 15 Sep, 2010 6:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Illusion Armoring-full suit         Reply with quote

Zach Gordon wrote:
Hi
How are http://www.illusionarmoring.com/ full period suits, quality wise? They seem really cheap but look pretty. I know a decent armorer I could pay to fit/fix it. Is it worth doing? I like the 14th century suit most, but I'm fine with any of them. I just want a suit of armor to wear cause I've always wanted one. I can build a kit around one when I get it. I dont really want to spend more then $3500 (prior to fitting/fixing/enhancing by my armorer)
Thnx
Z


I have two pieces from Illusion, a pair of greaves and a pair of sabatons. Their quality is good and their pricing is quite aggressive, just be prepared to wait for your order. If you want to fight next spring in your armour, order it today. Here's a review I recently posted:

Illusion Armoring Sabatons, a mini-review

...and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped. - Sir Bedevere
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Wed 15 Sep, 2010 9:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

From the Mercenary Tailor,s home page:
Quote:

THE HARNESS DEAL. BUY ARMOUR FOR ARMS, LEGS, TORSO, AND SHOULDERS ALL AT ONE TIME AND TAKE 20% OF THE TOTAL OF ALL ITEMS PURCHASED AT THAT TIME. CONTACT US FOR DETAILS.


http://www.merctailor.com/index.php

Depends on what you want as far as quality or authenticity but the MT armour is very well put together and very functional and if you get a number of pieces together and give your body measurements to Allan the odds are high that any tweaking of the fit would be minimal to none.

Add some good riveted mail and depending on which bits and pieces you choose you can get a good approximation of late golden age of maille period or early or later transitional plate armour.

At least I think you could get most of what you need for less than $3500 but you might have to look for a few extra pieces from other sources like a coat of plate or other pieces that Allan doesn't make.

In any case Allan is really cool about giving honest advice even if it means directing you to other makers if his stuff is not what you are looking for. ( Just send him an e-mail pr P.M. , no harm in asking questions or getting a quoted price ).

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Robert Hinds




Location: Whitewater, Wisconsin USA
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PostPosted: Mon 17 Jan, 2011 5:27 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Just wanted to resurect this topic to see if it could get any more reply's.

I've been looking at Illusion Armouring aswell and wondering about the quality of their suit's, if any modification's would need to be made, or if It would be better to just get one of their cuirass's and get the limbs/helm from somewhere else?

EDIT: Incedentally Jean is right, Merc tailor has great prices. I calculated I could get a 15th century harness minus helm, bevor and sabatons (neck to ankle protection) for $1,100 - $1,250.

"Young knight, learn to love God and revere women; thus your honor will grow. Practice knighthood and learn the Art that dignifies you, and brings you honor in wars." -Johannes Liechtenauer

"...And he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one..." Luke 22:36
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Robert Hinds




Location: Whitewater, Wisconsin USA
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PostPosted: Tue 18 Jan, 2011 7:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I guess not that many people on myArmoury have handled Illusion products. Worried
"Young knight, learn to love God and revere women; thus your honor will grow. Practice knighthood and learn the Art that dignifies you, and brings you honor in wars." -Johannes Liechtenauer

"...And he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one..." Luke 22:36
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Tue 18 Jan, 2011 7:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Robert Hinds wrote:
I guess not that many people on myArmoury have handled Illusion products. Worried


You do realize this post came about 14 hours or so after your last post looking for info, right? And that most people sleep at night? Happy More replies might take more time.

It could also be that because of past delivery problems (detailed on other forums more than here), people have been reluctant to give them a try more recently. The pics on their site largely have not changed in the many years I've had them book-marked. The stuff looks pretty nice. They can strap it and make it all ready to wear or you can buy it unstrapped and do that/have it done yourself.

Check out reviews on Armour Archive as well.

Happy

ChadA

http://chadarnow.com/
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Robert Hinds




Location: Whitewater, Wisconsin USA
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PostPosted: Tue 18 Jan, 2011 9:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chad Arnow wrote:
You do realize this post came about 14 hours or so after your last post looking for info, right? And that most people sleep at night? Happy More replies might take more time.



Yea I didn't think of that. I guess I'm just spoiled from logging on and seeing a bunch of reply's. lol. Happy

I was also kind of looking for an excuse to bump the topic, since if a topic falls off the list of topics on the home page it doesn't get too many reply's.

Thanks for the comment about delivery times, I've heard some horror story's about that aswell. Thanks for the Armour Archive link too.

"Young knight, learn to love God and revere women; thus your honor will grow. Practice knighthood and learn the Art that dignifies you, and brings you honor in wars." -Johannes Liechtenauer

"...And he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one..." Luke 22:36
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Tue 18 Jan, 2011 9:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Robert Hinds wrote:
Chad Arnow wrote:
You do realize this post came about 14 hours or so after your last post looking for info, right? And that most people sleep at night? Happy More replies might take more time.



Yea I didn't think of that. I guess I'm just spoiled from logging on and seeing a bunch of reply's. lol. Happy

I was also kind of looking for an excuse to bump the topic, since if a topic falls off the list of topics on the home page it doesn't get too many reply's.

Thanks for the comment about delivery times, I've heard some horror story's about that aswell. Thanks for the Armour Archive link too.



Hmmmmm: I always seem to be awake at odd hours I sleep a lot but many days it's sleeping all day and up all night. Wink Razz Laughing Out Loud

I understand the idea of wanting to bump something that falls off the Topic lists if the question is important to me but it's a good idea to wait 24 to 48 hours before bumping that first time. Wink

Oh, as a general reply when I find a reliable vendor I get spoiled and more reluctant to try an unknown quantity and even more if that unknown quantity has gotten a bad reputation for being bad at customer service or just bad at communication.
( NOTE: This above is a general comment not a comment about the Company the subject of this Topic as I have zero experience with purchasing from them )

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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William Knight




Location: Mid atlantic, US
Joined: 02 Oct 2005

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PostPosted: Tue 18 Jan, 2011 8:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

From what I've seen of Merc's tailor, the authenticity won't be what you'd get with an Illusion suit (Illusion is mid-grade, from what I've seen). Honestly though the more authentic harnesses are going to be out of your price range. Keep in mind, I do living history, so I have a different scale for these things then people doing WMA or other activities might.

That said, Illusion has a reputation for somewhat unreliable delivery schedules. You'll get your armour, but it might take a while.
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Tom Kinder





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PostPosted: Tue 18 Jan, 2011 9:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I own a set of stainless mitten gauntlets made by Illusion. I bought them off the shelf as they were in stock and got a pretty good price for them.
they are ever so slightly too large but not so much I can't use them (danger of buying off the shelf I don't blame ilusion), just enough that I notice it though. they are also a little heavier than I had hoped but they are very sturdy, they move well, articulate great, look good and offer good protection. I use them in SCA fighting for which they seem well suited. I had them put the straps on and they did a good job. I am happy with my gauntlets and I can say that unless you go with higher end stuff and get them fitted to your specific measurements you are unlikely to get anything that is really better. I do not have any information on any other sort of armor they make but I suspect it is relatively the same in quality.

oh and they shipped in good time, though they were on the shelf so . . . your mileage may vary.
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Kel Rekuta




Location: Toronto, Canada
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PostPosted: Wed 19 Jan, 2011 6:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A few years ago, Illusion had a fair rep for reasonable price, quality and delivery times. One of our new scholars ordered a full suit from them. A few months later, several boxes of medieval-esque metal work arrived. Most parts of it were sized poorly from rather extensive and elaborate measurements as per their direction. After significant reworking, re-strapping and general adjustment, we got the fellow into action. His helmet never did fit properly so he had to train in a fencing mask.

{Edit - My error - this was actually from TI Gauntlets} Another fellow got some half gauntlets from them. They looked like sheet metal work done by a workman trained in duct work; no compound curves, just numerous creases and rolled cones riveted together with upholstery leather. Completely and utterly useless as hand protection. $150 USD + shipping & duties - wasted.

One would assume Illusion improved the accuracy of their production since they managed to survive this long. As they have very low prices, newbies still find them attractive. Their reputedly long delivery times should put anyone off sending them money, I should think. The only positive reviews I've read recently were from SCAdians who bought stuff a really long time ago. The SCAdians have a long list of reviews of Illusion Armoury at the Armour Archive.

My two cents - avoid them. Save your money for harness from someone who still gets good reviews from people who fight in the stuff they made.


Last edited by Kel Rekuta on Wed 19 Jan, 2011 1:00 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Robert Hinds




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PostPosted: Wed 19 Jan, 2011 8:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank's for the responses.

Kel how long ago was that "medieval-esque metal work" incident?

I've been to Armour Archive and seen those reviews you mention. Most say something like: "When I bought from them I had to wait a bit, but it looks good and is bomb proof. But that was 15 years ago." Worried

"Young knight, learn to love God and revere women; thus your honor will grow. Practice knighthood and learn the Art that dignifies you, and brings you honor in wars." -Johannes Liechtenauer

"...And he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one..." Luke 22:36
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Kel Rekuta




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PostPosted: Wed 19 Jan, 2011 12:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Robert,

I would guess it was sometime in 2005, since the fellow wouldn't have been eligible to train in armour much before then. He seemed to get the stuff very shortly after he played his prize. (We don't let just anyone strap on kit and go at it with rebated steel.) Nota bene, mea culpa Blush - I have to take back the comments about the half gauntlets - they didn't come from Illusion. They came from this guy. http://tigauntlets.com/

Frankly, what SCAdians and RennFaire folk look for in armour is a little different than our standards. We stab each other with steel weapons so big gaps between plates that should meet or overlap are unacceptable. One of the most important aspects of harness for SCA use is how heavy it is to reduce denting from weekly beatings. As few of them wear mail and plate together, the weapons are unable to penetrate even padded coats and the general reliance on edge blows; this is a sensible and appropriate feature for their equipment. Hence "bomb proof" in their game. Much of it wouldn't be allowed in our game.

The thing that should be most alarming to anyone interested in Illusion Armour is how long they have the client's money before a product arrives. Sure their prices are low but who wants to shell out $$ and toss the dice every month to see whether anything comes of it? Kind of a false economy in my view... Wink

I think more low budget shoppers should take advantage of the incredibly low prices for pretty fair harness out of the Ukraine and Poland. I haven't heard too many bad things about the handful of vendors operating there. And I watch this market all the time because I receive endless questions about where to get this or that from my students! YMMV and probably will. Laughing Out Loud
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Robert Hinds




Location: Whitewater, Wisconsin USA
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PostPosted: Wed 19 Jan, 2011 10:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank's Kel. That's what looked wrong! I knew something looked different from period suits...it was all the gaps in the plates!
"Young knight, learn to love God and revere women; thus your honor will grow. Practice knighthood and learn the Art that dignifies you, and brings you honor in wars." -Johannes Liechtenauer

"...And he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one..." Luke 22:36
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Tom Kinder





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PostPosted: Thu 20 Jan, 2011 7:13 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I can see how their work might not satisfy some people and their armor definitely seems geared towards the SCA being extra thick and heavy like it is. I would like to point out though that my gauntlets do have complex curves and no gaps of any size. but I still wouldn't really recommend them for guys doing live steel mostly because they are a bit over sized by design and can make gripping a real hilt a bit difficult, especially single handed ones. long sword grips need to be at least 8 inches to accommodate both gauntlets. Each gauntlet weighs about 3 pounds. so . . . yeah over built for sure, unless I misunderstand something. my fellow SCAdians seem to like all their stuff over-sized and heavy. I try to avoid that but am not often able to.
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Kel Rekuta




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PostPosted: Thu 20 Jan, 2011 5:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Robert Hinds wrote:
Thank's Kel. That's what looked wrong! I knew something looked different from period suits...it was all the gaps in the plates!


Cute. Razz

Even though this fits the mannequin fairly well, if you were to purchase one of these "munition" suits - thinking it was appropriate period armour - you would find quite large gaps in the articulation. The spaudler articulation looks great at rest; in action it was so poorly fitted that even 6mm thick blades passed through them with no effort. Yeah, its a heck of a deal for someone using 40mm thrusting tips but its just one step up from these decorative armours Windlass sells.

Add that to a breast and back that don't fit inside each other or measure the circumference of the chest dimensions provided... well. Its kind of pointless buying it to wear for full contact rebated steel combat - which they market it for.


From the same page: The Munitions grade armour is designed for the multitude of "combat re-enactors" and meets or exceeds the standards set by the Society for Creative Anachronism (S.C.A.) as well as other live steel groups. It does not mimic any specific style of armor made in medieval times, but is completely functional.

My impression still stands. If they couldn't make this stuff to order, I sincerely doubt they could make the high end kit, which demands far more accurate sizing and form scaled to the client. Again, this was when they turned orders around in months instead of years after banking the client's funds. Wink You are welcome to your opinion, I wish you enormous success in your armour purchases! Laughing Out Loud
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