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Allen Jones




Location: NC, USA
Joined: 10 Apr 2008

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PostPosted: Tue 14 Sep, 2010 4:14 pm    Post subject: Jacobite Clothing         Reply with quote

I am interested in putting together a Scottish Jacobite kit and am looking for credible information on what they wore. I am looking for information on everything from shirts, vest, coats, kilts, stockings, and shoes. I am fairly adept at making clothes and I want to make this kit myself. I am ideally looking for images of actual clothing from the period if any exist and any renderings from the period. I am very familiar with "The Battle of Culloden" by David Morier and have studied it in length.I know that there is a very strong Scottish community here and am excited about getting started.

Thank you for all your help.
Allen
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David Wilson




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PostPosted: Tue 14 Sep, 2010 5:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here are some websites that might help....

http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/scottish/index.html
http://albanach.org/kilt.html
http://www.historichighlanders.com/attire.htm

Some things to remember:
-- Not everyone wore the kilt. There were also tartan trews (NOT trousers!), and "regular" clothing (ie breeches and hose). All these would have been as common as the breacan feile and philabeg. It's probable that some highlanders who had the kilt also wore breeches and trews as well.
-- No matter what your other kit consists of (kilt, trews or breeches), you must also have a waistcoat and jacket. I know it's a staple of the Renn Fair circuit, but to merely wear the breacan feile with a shirt won't cut it, as simply appearing in your shirttails was considered somewhat vulgar back then. Plus, you need a garment to secure the kilt "plaid" to, and the shirt won't be strong enough for that.
-- If you choose tartan fabric for the jacket and/or waistcoat, they do not have to match the kilt/trews. In fact, it's just as well they don't. If you'll notice from the Morier painting, most of the Highlanders there look like a "tartan mess". Also, keep in mind that there were really no "clan tartans" as such (although it's probable that folks living in a certain area would have access to the same weavers, who would probably have produced a limited number of patterns based on available materials/dyes, and so a certain amount of "coincidental" uniformity may have existed. But there was no "meaning" beyond that).
-- Keep in mind that even the poorest folks did try to look their best, although they certainly would not have had the finery of a Gentleman or Laird. Still, they too would have been "fully" dressed as mentioned above. No shortcuts!
-- The breacan feile is a very warm garment. Hey, it's basically a wool blanket. You can really see how the Highlanders kept warm in winter. In summer, though... warm, sweaty wool blanket draped about yourself doesn't work. Is that why the philabeg was invented...?

David K. Wilson, Jr.
Laird of Glencoe

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Henrik Bjoern Boegh




Location: Aust Agder, Norway
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PostPosted: Wed 15 Sep, 2010 6:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

David is pretty much right.

Getting the right tartan is a pain... None of the tartans you get from tartan stores are right for a Jacobite kit. The tartan worn back in the 18th century was thick and warm. Warm enough to survive a Highland winter, which was notoriously bad in the 1740s. So you're talking heavier than 18 oz per yard. I suggest Harris Tweed if you can get it. PM me if you want help with finding one.

-Belted plaid. Consisted of two ells width of tartan joined at the middle (making a width of aprox 160cm). You'd need 5 meters. Belting it on the ground seem like a reenactorism and a silly modern idea, but a drawstring on the other hand Wink If you need instructions on how to make this, just send me a PM. I've got one.

-Linen shirt, with or without ruffles, depending on your status. Cut just like other European shirts, but it should reach your knees when you put it on. Bone, horn or pewter buttons.

-Neck stock or Cravat. Linen. If a stock, it can be either white or black.

-Tartan hose cut on the bias, or cross to improve the stretch. Get the Kannicks Korner pattern. Very good for it. Worn to just below the knee. Can be longer and folded down.

-Woolen garters. Mostly made of solid coloured wool, but multicoloured have been recorded, but not in tartan. Wool tape is good for it. About an inch or so wide.

-Woolen jacket. Either solid wool or tartan. If solid coloured get a decent broadcloth. Can have lace/trim on the edges depending on what status you portray. Mid 18th century style with either buttoned cuffs, turnback cuffs, or "mariners" (scalloped) cuffs or even a turnback with mariner cuffs. The last seem to have been very popular with the Highland nobility at the time. And when describing this type of cuff the French called them Scottish cuffs. Working pockets with scalloped pocket flaps. Buttons; ideally woolen ones of the same fabric as the rest of the jacket, or pewter or brass. The jacket must be cut shorter than typical coats of the period to work with the belted plaid. Linen or fustian lining. The edges of the jacket would most probably be left raw, but that depends on taste, wool quality and status.

-Waistcoat. Pretty much same as jacket. It can be longer than the jacket in front, and would most probably be if you've got any trim on it. Can be either sleeved or unsleeved and can be of the same fabric as the jacket or something else. In any case heavy wool.

-Shoes: Three options here: 1. Brouges, made of leather. Simple moccasine like shoes. Here's a good example. Very comfy: http://freespace.virgin.net/gc.hughes/foxblad...ogoues.jpg http://www.foxblade.co.uk
2. Latchet shoes of mid 18th century type.
3. Buckeled shoes of mid 18th century type.
All can be used by all classes, but the quality of the shoes should suit the rest of your kit.

-Knitted and felted blue bonnet. This should be knitted and knitted only! Although sewn ones have been found (one example as far as I ken) they are awful compared to knitted ones, and you'd look like a Swedish chef whenever the wind catches you Laughing Out Loud Can be either indigo or wyde dyed. For the 18th century indigo would be most correct.
The cockade on the bonnet can be either linen or silk and there is a great variety of how to make them.

-Sporran worn on the belt for the plaid. Simple drawstring type pouch with flap and antler button. Make it yourself. Usually whatever the type kiltmakers sell is wrong for a Jacobite impression.

Make sure all the leather is vegetable tanned and not sprayed with silicone or any other awful stuff. No studs. All joins of the leather should either be with waxed linen thread or leather strings.

If you've got a sword make sure it's of an appropriate type. And only men with means would have had swords. Sword to be carried in a broad baldric. With brass buckle and frog. Scabbard should ideally have a frog hook.

All men would have had a dirk, but it doesn't need to be a heavily carved one, again it should suit the rest of the kit. And stay well clear of all weaponry made by 19th century patterns. The dirk hilt should be about the length of your palm, not bigger.
And you should have a musket. Ideally a model 1717 French one, or a 1728 or a brown bess.
If you've got a musket, you would do well to get a powder horn and a cartridge bag. Either French or British design according to what musket you have.

Oh, yes, almost forgot. You'd do well to get some sort of water bottle. Especially if you're going to get a musket as well.
Look at 18th century ones in reenactor suppliers or leather bottles.
The Jacobites were all equipped with a haversack to carry food. Either linen or some sort of canvas with buttoned flap.

If you've got a sword you can have a targe as well. Tooled and heavily studded only if you've got a front rankers kit.

David is right about the Highlanders also sometimes being dressed just like the lowlanders. And trews and filabegs as well. Trews are incredibly hard to make, as they should be very tight fitting (and almost revealing!). Cut just like the hose, on the bias/cross and with a fall front, just like on some breeks.

The philabeg of the mid 18th century was not tailored the way the kilt was, nor the same way as in the late 18th century, but based on the portraits from the period that show them, they were most probably made up of a single ell of tartan cloth and pleated around the waist and then had the pleats fixed in some way.

The plaids pleats can be worn all the way round your waist, you don't need to have the pressed flat aprons. Most pictorial evidence suggest that they were gathered in a fold or two or pleated all the way. The only way the pleats can go all the way is by using a drawstring or by having the pleats sown in, which isn't kenned to have been done till later in the century.

I hope this helps. Good luck Happy

Cheers,
Henrik

Ps. David, have you read Burt's Letters?

Constant and true.
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Allen Jones




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PostPosted: Wed 15 Sep, 2010 4:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you guys for your help, I have a lot of reading to do. I have already made a sword and dirk, based off examples from George Neumann's Swords and Blades of the American Revolution. I also have a modern kilt which will have to do for awhile do to the cost of tartan fabric. I will start with the waistcoat and hose. Then when I get some more money I will tackle the coat and then the big save for shoes and a good kilt.

Allen
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Henrik Bjoern Boegh




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PostPosted: Thu 16 Sep, 2010 5:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Allen Jones wrote:
Thank you guys for your help, I have a lot of reading to do. I have already made a sword and dirk, based off examples from George Neumann's Swords and Blades of the American Revolution. I also have a modern kilt which will have to do for awhile do to the cost of tartan fabric. I will start with the waistcoat and hose. Then when I get some more money I will tackle the coat and then the big save for shoes and a good kilt.

Allen


Just a tip: Start with the coat rather than the waistcoat, then you just button up the coat and you'll look the part Wink

Cheers,
Henrik

Constant and true.
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Chris Goerner




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PostPosted: Thu 16 Sep, 2010 5:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's another link I hope will prove helpful to you. Some great photos: http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f244/jacobite-garb-51320/

Chris

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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Sat 18 Sep, 2010 4:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Henrik Bjoern Boegh wrote:
All men would have had a dirk, but it doesn't need to be a heavily carved one, again it should suit the rest of the kit. And stay well clear of all weaponry made by 19th century patterns. The dirk hilt should be about the length of your palm, not bigger.


Please bear in mind that while many (most?) dirk hilts were smaller than you'd imagine, there are examples that are larger. For example, this example has about a 5 inch hilt, based on published documentation:



Make sure the piece you carry is appropriately sized for its type. Better yet, make sure it's patterned after an extant example and matches the original as closely as possible.

Happy

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David Teague




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PostPosted: Sat 18 Sep, 2010 7:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Henrik Bjoern Boegh wrote:
Allen Jones wrote:
Thank you guys for your help, I have a lot of reading to do. I have already made a sword and dirk, based off examples from George Neumann's Swords and Blades of the American Revolution. I also have a modern kilt which will have to do for awhile do to the cost of tartan fabric. I will start with the waistcoat and hose. Then when I get some more money I will tackle the coat and then the big save for shoes and a good kilt.

Allen


Just a tip: Start with the coat rather than the waistcoat, then you just button up the coat and you'll look the part Wink

Cheers,
Henrik


Or get a sleeved waistcoat and just use that until you can afford the coat.

Cheers,

David



ps I'll come back and give you some tips when I've got time

This you shall know, that all things have length and measure.

Free Scholar/ Instructor Selohaar Fechtschule
The Historic Recrudescence Guild

"Yea though I walk through the valley of death, I will fear no evil: for Thou's sword art is with me; Thy poleaxe and Thy quarterstaff they comfort me."
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Karl Schlesien





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PostPosted: Sun 19 Sep, 2010 12:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here are a few historic references to help you along.

"In Martin's description of the Western Isles of Scotland (second edition, London, 1716, p. 206), we find the following minute account of the dress formerly worn by the Islanders The first habit wore by persons of distinction in the islands was the lcni-croich, from the Irish word fern; which signifies a shirt, and croich, saffron, because their shirt was dyed with that herb. The ordinary number of ells used to make this robe was twenty-four; it was the upper garb, reaching below the knees, and was tied with a belt round the middle; but the Islanders have laid it aside about a hundred years ago.
They now generally use coat, waistcoat, and breeches, as elsewhere; and on their heads wear bonnets made of thick cloth, some blue, some black, and some grey.
Many of the people wear trowis; some have them very fine woven, like stockings of those made of cloth; some are coloured, and others striped; the latter are as well shaped as the former, lying close to the body from the middle downwards, and tied round with a belt above the haunches. There is a square piece of cloth which hangs down before. The measure for shaping the trowis is a stick of wood, whose length is a cubit, and that divided into the length of a finger, and half a finger, so that it requires more skill to make it than the ordinary habit.
The shoes anciently wore were a piece of the hide of a deer, cow, or horse, with the hair on, being tied behind and before with a point of leather. The generality now wear shoes, having one thin sole only, and shaped after the right and left foot; so that what is for one foot will not serve for the other. But persons of distinction wear the garb in fashion in the south of Scotland.

The plai4 wore only by the men, is made of fine wool, the thred as fine as can be made of that kind; it consists of divers colours, and there is a great deal of ingenuity required in sorting the colours, so as to be agreeable to the nicest fancy. For this reason the women are at great pains, first to give an exact pattern of the plad upon a piece of wood, having the number of every thred of the stripe on it. The length of it is commonly seven double ells; the one end hangs by the middle over the left arm, the other going round the body, hangs by the end over the left arm also; the right hand above it is to be at liberty to do anything upon occasion. Every isle differs from each other in the fancy of making plads, as to the stripes in breadth and colours. This humour is as different through the mainland of the Highlands, in so far that they who have seen those places are able, at the first view of a man's plad, to guess the place of his residence. When they travel on foot, the plad is tied on the breast with a bodkin of bone or wood (just as the spina wore by the Germans, according to the description of Tacitus). The plad is tied round the middle with a leather belt; it is pleated from the belt to the knee very nicely. This dress for footmen is found much easier and lighter than breeches or trowis. The ancient dress wore by the women, and which is yet worn by some of the vulgar, called arisad is a white plad, having a few small stripes of black, blue, and red. It reached from the neck to the heels, and was tied before on the breast with a buckle of silver or brass, according to the quality of the person. I have seen some of the former of an hundred marks' value; it was broad as an ordinary pewter plate, the whole curiously engraved with various animals, &c. There was a lesser buckle, which was wore in the middle of the larger, and above two ounces weight; it had in the centre a large piece of chrystal, or some finer stone, and this was set all round with several finer stones of a lesser size.

The plad being pleated all round, was tied with a belt below the breast; the belt was of leather, and several pieces of silver intermixed with the leather like a chain. The lower end of the belt has a piece of plate, about eight inches long and three in breadth, curiously engraven; the end of which was adorned with fine stones, or pieces of red coral. They wore sleeves of scarlet cloth, closed at the end as men's vests, with gold lace round them, having plate buttons set with fine stones.

The head-dress was a fine kerchief of linen strait about the bead, hanging down the back taper-wise; a large lock of hair hangs down their cheeks above their breast, the lower end tied with a knot of ribbands."

"The following is the description of the Highland dress given by Captain Burt, an English officer of engineers, employed under Marshal Wade on the military roads through the Highlands, begun in the year 1726. It is taken from his amusing work, "Letters from a Gentleman in the North of Scotland" (2d edition, London, 1759), to which such frequent reference has been made in the works of Sir Walter Scott :-

The Highland dress consists of a bonnet made of thrum without a brim, a short coat, a waistcoat, longer by five or six inches, short stockings and brogues, or pumps, without heels. By the way, they cut holes in their brogues though new made, to let out the water when they have far to go, and rivers to pass; thus they do to prevent their feet from galling.

Few besides gentlemen wear the trowze, that is the breeches and stockings all of one piece and drawn on together; over this habit they wear a plaid, which is usually three yards long and two breadths wide, and the whole garb is made of chequered tartan or plaiding; thus, with the sword and pistol, is called a full dress, and to a well-proportioned man, with any tolerable air, it makes an agreeable figure; but this you have seen in London, and it is chiefly their mode of dressing when they are in the Lowlands, or when they make a neighbouring visit, or go anywhere on horseback; but those among them who travel on foot, and have not attendants to carry them over the waters, vary it into the quelt, which is a manner I am about to describe.

The commoner habit of the ordinary Highlanders is far from being acceptable to the eye; with them a small part of the plaid, which is not so large as the former, is set in folds and girt round the waist to make of it a short petticoat that reaches halfway down the thigh, and the rest is brought over the shoulder, and then fastened before below the neck, often with a fork and sometimes with a bodkin or sharpened piece of stick, so that they make pretty near the appearance of the people in London, when they bring their gowns over their heads to shelter them from the rain. In this way of wearing the plaid, they have nothing else to cover them, and are often barefoot, but some I have seen- shod with a kind of pumps made out of a raw cow hide with the hair turned outward, which being ill made, the wearer's foot looked something like a rough-footed hen or pigeon. These are called quaxiants, and are not only offensive to the sight, but intolerable to the smell of those who are near them. The stocking rises, no higher than the thick of the calf, and from the middle of the thigh to the middle of the leg is a naked space, which, being exposed to all weathers, becomes tanned and freckled..—(Vol. ii., p. 183.)"

The same author thus describes the arms:

"When any one of them is armed at all points, heis loaded with a target, a firelock, a heavy broadsword, a pistol-stock, and lock of iron, a dirk; and besides all these, some of them carry a sort of knife, which they call a skeen.accles [sgian achiaf:), from its being concealed in the sleeve near the armpit.—(p. 222.)

The blade [of the dirk) is straight, and generally above a foot long, the back near an inch thick; the point goes off like a tuck, and the handle is something like that of a sickle. They pretend that they can't well do without it, as being useful to them in cutting wood, and upon many othes occasions; but it is a concealed mischief hid under the plaid, ready for the secret stabbing, and in a close encounter there is no defence against it.—(p. 174.)

Mr Gough, in his additions to Camden's Britannica (Edit. London, 1789, vol. iii., P. 390), gives the following accurate description of the Highland dress and armour, as they were to be found in the district of Breadalbane previous to the proscription of the dress :-

The dress of the men is the brechan or plaid, twelve or thirteen yards of narrow stuff, wrapped round the middle, and reaching to the knees, often girt round the waist, and in cold weather covering the whole body, even on the open hills, all night, and fastened on the shoulders with a broche; short stockings tied below the knee; Iruish, a genteeler kind of breeches, and stockings of one piece; cuoranen, a laced shoe of skin, with the hairy side out, rather disused; kelt orJillebeg, g.d., little plaid, or short petticoat, reaching to the knees, substituted of late to the longer end of the plaid; and lastly, the pouch of badger or other skin, with tassels hanging before them. The Loc/a&r axe, used now only by the Town Guard of Edinburgh, was a tremendous weapon. bows and arrows were in use in the middle of the last century, now, as well.

as the broadsword and target, laid aside since the disarming act, but the dirk, or ancient puglo, is still worn as a dress with the knife and fork."

"The following detail of the complete equipment of a Highland chief, and instructions for belting the plaid, were communicated by a Highland gentleman to Charles Grant, vzcomte de Vaux, &c., &c., by whom they were printed in his "Mémoires de la Maison de Grant," in 1796 (pp. 6-7):---

1. A full-trimmed bonnet.
2. A tartan jacket, vest, kilt, and cross belt.
3. A tartan belted plaid.
4. A pair of hose, made up [of cloth].
5. A pair of stockings, do., with yellow garters.
6. Two pair of brogs.
7. A silver mounted purse and belt.
8. A target with spear.
9. A broadsword.
10. A pair of pistols and bullet mould.
11. A dirk, knife, fork, and belt.

METHOD OF BELTING THE PLAID.—Being sewed, and the broad belt within the keepers, the gentleman stands with nothing on but his shirt; when the servant gets the plaid and belt round, he must hold both ends of the belt, till the gentleman adjusts and puts across, in a proper manner, the two folds or flaps before; that done, he tightens the belt to the degree wanted; Olen the purse and purse-belt is put on loosely; afterwards, the coat and waistcoat is put on, and the great low part hanging down behind, where a loop is fixed, is to be pinned up to the right shoulder, immediately under the shoulder-strap, pinned in such a manner that the corner, or low- flyer behind, hang as low as the kilt or hough, and no lower; that properly adjusted, the pointed corner or flap that hangs at the left thigh, to be taken through the purse belt, and to hang, having a cast back very near as low as the belt, putting at the same time any awkward bulky part of the plaid on the left side back from the haunch, stuffed under the purse-belt. When the shoulder or sword belt is put on, the flyer that hangs behind is to be taken through, and hung over the shoulder-belt.

N.B.—No kilt ought ever to hang lower than the bough or knee—scarcely that far down."


Much food for thought.
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Lin Robinson




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PostPosted: Sun 19 Sep, 2010 2:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If this was said in some of the other posts then please forgive me for repeating it. Within the Jacobite forces were numerous lowlanders who dressed much like their adversaries but there there also English Jacobites who joined Prince Charlie's army in Manchester and in other scattered locations on the march south. Contemporary descriptions say that these persons did adopt the white cockade as their badge and some wore tartan sashes, but their dress over all was the same as what their countrymen wore. Highlanders also wore breeches at times and not necessarily made of tartan fabric. Depending on whom you are portraying, you have a wide variety of clothing styles to use.
Lin Robinson

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Allen Jones




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PostPosted: Sun 19 Sep, 2010 5:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you all this is very helpful.
I have made a sleeved waistcoat and it is what I currently use but it is a late 18th century (American Rev. War) pattern.
One of the things I really enjoy about this period is the variety.
The Scots have been romanticized and I enjoy learn the truth behind the legend.

Allen
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David Teague




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PostPosted: Sun 19 Sep, 2010 6:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Allen Jones wrote:
Thank you all this is very helpful.
I have made a sleeved waistcoat and it is what I currently use but it is a late 18th century (American Rev. War) pattern.
One of the things I really enjoy about this period is the variety.
The Scots have been romanticized and I enjoy learn the truth behind the legend.

Allen


Hello Allen,

That the beauty of the 1745.

The later shorter waistcoat and coats of the working class of the American Rev. War look like those worn by the common class Scots with the great kilt. You can make the shorter design and use the lace up back of the 1740's and be pretty spot on.

It's the clan leaders and the front rankers that look like the guy in my photo on the left. The guy in the middle and me on the right would be dressed as the mid-rankers of the clan... think lower middle class to upper bottom class. The tinkers and the clan poor would be to the rear of the ranks and they are the ones with ragged clothes, old arms, and little desire to be there.

If you shop the net, you can find 8-10 oz 58- 60 inch wide wool tartan cheap, 7-10 dollars a yard. You don't want the 14-16 oz blanket weight wool for the great kilt. Get 7-9 yards and you're set. Find something in a period tartan (like a "Rob Roy") and you'll be set.

Cheers,

David

This you shall know, that all things have length and measure.

Free Scholar/ Instructor Selohaar Fechtschule
The Historic Recrudescence Guild

"Yea though I walk through the valley of death, I will fear no evil: for Thou's sword art is with me; Thy poleaxe and Thy quarterstaff they comfort me."
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Henrik Bjoern Boegh




Location: Aust Agder, Norway
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PostPosted: Mon 20 Sep, 2010 6:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I don't think you'd survive long in the cold damp weather of the winter of 1745-46 wearing the light weight wools. I've been up in the borders of Scotland for the Culloden filming and I was wearing thin stuff. It was horrible. That was only with an effective temperature of -4C. The '45 was fought out during one of the worst winters they had had for many years and the fabrics used by the Jacobites would have been warm.
After the Culloden filming I got myself some warm stuff, which is more authentic and that stuff will help you survive and look the part. It is a question of authenticity and it depends how authentic you want to look. If you really want to look and feel like a Jacobite go for the stuff that's thicker than 18oz. Harder to find and a lot more expensive, but well worth it.

Cheers,
Henrik

Constant and true.
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David Teague




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PostPosted: Mon 20 Sep, 2010 9:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Henrik Bjoern Boegh wrote:
I don't think you'd survive long in the cold damp weather of the winter of 1745-46 wearing the light weight wools. I've been up in the borders of Scotland for the Culloden filming and I was wearing thin stuff. It was horrible. That was only with an effective temperature of -4C. The '45 was fought out during one of the worst winters they had had for many years and the fabrics used by the Jacobites would have been warm.
After the Culloden filming I got myself some warm stuff, which is more authentic and that stuff will help you survive and look the part. It is a question of authenticity and it depends how authentic you want to look. If you really want to look and feel like a Jacobite go for the stuff that's thicker than 18oz. Harder to find and a lot more expensive, but well worth it.

Cheers,
Henrik


Hello Henrik,

Can you give me documentation that 18 oz wool (heaver than a blanket) is the correct wool?

I've never seen proof that the standard great kilt wool was that heavy. Also, if Alan lives in a part of the world where the temperatures hit 100 deg F he will pass out from heat stroke when he tries to wear 7-9 yards of the stuff.( We had a member of our troop score some 16 oz stuff that had that issue on a 80 deg F Alaskan summer day.

I know Scotland can be cold and damp, but I've been happy with the light weight stuff in Alaska... (Alaska. Closer to the north pole than Scotland.)

It's easy to forget that the highlands once had dwellings in many of the now vacant valleys... ones that were burned down during the Highland Clearances so there were places to take warm shelter when traveling the higlands that no longer exist.

Don't overlook the fact that you are a modern person that was not raised in the area from birth, nor grew up wearing the clothing in question.

Human beings can adapt to rather extreme conditions from birth, yet those of us from minder climates have to wear different lighter or heaver clothing to be comfortable when we leave the area that we grew up in. What allows this to happen is a fat cell called "brown fat" that allows us to be warm with less clothing if raised in a cold part of the world. Why it doesn't work for us milder climate people the fact is those cells "go away" in humans raised in warmer climates or dressed in heavy clothing from birth when outside and kept warm on a dally basis. Local Alaskan natives can stroll around in the extreme cold during winter in clothing that I would die in, thanks to this little fact of nature and human biology ( think t-shirt and jeans at -4C).

Cheers,

David

This you shall know, that all things have length and measure.

Free Scholar/ Instructor Selohaar Fechtschule
The Historic Recrudescence Guild

"Yea though I walk through the valley of death, I will fear no evil: for Thou's sword art is with me; Thy poleaxe and Thy quarterstaff they comfort me."
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A. Spanjer




Location: USA
Joined: 26 Apr 2009

Posts: 242

PostPosted: Mon 20 Sep, 2010 10:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

[quote="David Teague"]
Henrik Bjoern Boegh wrote:
Human beings can adapt to rather extreme conditions from birth, yet those of us from minder climates have to wear different lighter or heaver clothing to be comfortable when we leave the area that we grew up in. What allows this to happen is a fat cell called "brown fat" that allows us to be warm with less clothing if raised in a cold part of the world. Why it doesn't work for us milder climate people the fact is those cells "go away" in humans raised in warmer climates or dressed in heavy clothing from birth when outside and kept warm on a dally basis. Local Alaskan natives can stroll around in the extreme cold during winter in clothing that I would die in, thanks to this little fact of nature and human biology ( think t-shirt and jeans at -4C).

Cheers,

David


Interestingly enough, I've lived my entire life in Georgia, and I wear shorts and a t-shirt quite often all winter long. (Admittedly, it doesn't get anywhere near as cold here as it does in Alaska or Scotland, but it does get down the the upper teens (Fahrenheit))

Na sir 's na seachain an cath.
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Karl Schlesien





Joined: 15 Sep 2010

Posts: 54

PostPosted: Mon 20 Sep, 2010 2:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Herr Spanjer, just a small suggestion, perhaps it would serve you better to research the drawings and der paintings done at the time you wish to portray. Take your costume from these period references, rather than copy from photographs the interpretive mistakes of other reenactors.
Because one source says's it is so does not mean that it is in fact, correct. Do your own research first, then draw upon the others for material sources.



Quote:
Local Alaskan natives can stroll around in the extreme cold during winter in clothing that I would die in, thanks to this little fact of nature and human biology ( think t-shirt and jeans at -4C).


Perhaps" trace" amounts of HOCH2CH2OH in their systems may also be a factor.
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David Teague




Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Joined: 25 Jan 2004

Posts: 409

PostPosted: Mon 20 Sep, 2010 2:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Karl Schlesien wrote:
Herr Spanjer, just a small suggestion, perhaps it would serve you better to research the drawings and der paintings done at the time you wish to portray. Take your costume from these period references, rather than copy from photographs the interpretive mistakes of other reenactors.
Because one source says's it is so does not mean that it is in fact, correct. Do your own research first, then draw upon the others for material sources.



Quote:
Local Alaskan natives can stroll around in the extreme cold during winter in clothing that I would die in, thanks to this little fact of nature and human biology ( think t-shirt and jeans at -4C).


Perhaps" trace" amounts of HOCH2CH2OH in their systems may also be a factor.


Karl is quite correct. Do your own research, work from period text and paintings, beware of anything written down or painted after the fact during the Victorian era as they were quite notorious for making things up or printing wild claims as facts...

as for the " trace" amounts of HOCH2CH2OH in a person's blood stream, I don't think homo sapiens fare any better than the species canis does when HOCH2CH2OH is present in the blood.

Cheers,

DT

This you shall know, that all things have length and measure.

Free Scholar/ Instructor Selohaar Fechtschule
The Historic Recrudescence Guild

"Yea though I walk through the valley of death, I will fear no evil: for Thou's sword art is with me; Thy poleaxe and Thy quarterstaff they comfort me."
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Allen Jones




Location: NC, USA
Joined: 10 Apr 2008

Posts: 18

PostPosted: Mon 20 Sep, 2010 4:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think that it is important to be aware of what the modern consensus is of a period is but not fall into the trap of thinking that the consensus is fact. There is no substitute for doing the work and coming to your own conclusion which you can weigh against other peoples ideas. That is why in my original I asked for things from the period so that I can start drawing my own conclusion.

I must admit I have been a little concerned about the weight of fabric for the belted plaid. I live in North Carolina, U.S.A. and it does up to 100 deg.F and 90% humidity in the summer and not very cold in the winter (it doesn't snow nearly as much as I would like). On the other hand I hate the look of a limp kilt. I am going to have to find a balance between the right body to the fabric and it not being so heavy that I die in it. But since I am going to start making a shirt and then the coat I have some time to try to figure out what that balance will be.

Allen
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Lin Robinson




Location: NC
Joined: 15 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Mon 20 Sep, 2010 5:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Allen...

As a fellow tarheel who wears the kilt regularly, I can understand you feelings. We were in Charleston, SC last weekend in 95 degree heat and 95% humidity at the Charleston Highland Games. Cotton tartan would have felt very good.

Go with what will make you the most comfortable, without sacrificing much in the way of appearance. When I was an associate member of the Appin Regiment, many, many years ago, the recommendation was for wool blend tartan in a nondescript pattern. It looks good and no big deal if it gets stained or torn as it was not $85 a yard! The Scottish Tartans Museum in Franklin once sold great kilt kits. I have not seen one for sale lately but you might give them a ring to see what they suggest. Matt Newsome, who runs the museum, is a great source for information and suggestions. Nice place to visit too.

Lin Robinson

"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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Karl Schlesien





Joined: 15 Sep 2010

Posts: 54

PostPosted: Mon 20 Sep, 2010 7:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
(it doesn't snow nearly as much as I would like)


One could always join Mr. Teague in Alaska!


The Scottish Tartans Museum, can anyone call and speak with Matt Newsome? Is he amenable to someone just calling or does one need to schedule a mutually convenient time? Lin have you called before? I have questions that perhaps he might be able to answer.


Tschüss!
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