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Dave Hunzicker




Location: Seattle
Joined: 09 Sep 2010

Posts: 6

PostPosted: Thu 09 Sep, 2010 9:28 pm    Post subject: Please help ID Swept Hilt Rapier         Reply with quote

I recently purchased an antique swept hilt rapier and I've begun to question it's authenticity. I know it's hard to tell from pictures alone, but can anybody offer any insight based on these. This was advertised as an Italian Swept Hilt Rapier of about 1600. I would appreciate any thoughts, as I am no expert in this field.
Thank you,
-Dave



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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Thu 09 Sep, 2010 9:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Not the same one, and the one I'm linking to is a reproduction Del Tin:
http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=...ian+Rapier

Now if you look closely you can see enough differences that it's not the same rapier but the guard style is very very close.

You can use the description about the Del Tin on the Kult of Athena site as also being applicable to your sword as to period and style.

I can't tell you if your sword is a period sword or a modern copy but it does look like the Del Tin shown as based on it or a very similar sword.

Yours could be original or a Del Tin made sword i.e. an earlier version of the sword they currently make ?
( Could be a reproduction made by another maker but my gut feeling is, that unless it is an original, it just feels like a Del Tin to me ).

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Likes: 7 pages

Posts: 2,265

PostPosted: Fri 10 Sep, 2010 3:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Photo of the maker's mark would help.
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Dmitry Z~G





Joined: 22 Jun 2008

Posts: 77

PostPosted: Fri 10 Sep, 2010 6:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello,
IMHO this is a composite of new and old parts.The two most obvious things are the junction of the pommel and the grip, and that the swept guard appears modern.
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Dave Hunzicker




Location: Seattle
Joined: 09 Sep 2010

Posts: 6

PostPosted: Fri 10 Sep, 2010 6:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here are a few more pictures.
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Dave Hunzicker




Location: Seattle
Joined: 09 Sep 2010

Posts: 6

PostPosted: Fri 10 Sep, 2010 7:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Oops, I'll try attaching those pictures again when I get home tonight.

I purchased this as an antique (circa 1600) from a reputable dealer in business for over 40 years. They did not offer a return policy, but they did provide a certificate of authenticity. If the sword is in fact a composite, and especially if it has new parts, does that violate the certificate of authenticity and authorize me to return it? And if so, I would need to gather more evidence than your comments. Where could I go to get a formal opinion of the sword?

How do the ethics work here?

Thanks!
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Markus A




Location: Germany
Joined: 03 Feb 2010

Posts: 61

PostPosted: Fri 10 Sep, 2010 7:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

i would stay calm.what shall all the fuzz.
first what did you pay for.the item can not be rated with pics alone. not with those you did sent.when -you must sent details where the bars met and sepearte here the iron was divided with an chisel when it was hot.this will leave certain marks which are not present when an item is welded.
then one should never buy such stuff when one has no knowledge of such things.even if its composite its sold without guarantees.
in germany an antiquitie is sold as real one when at least 30 percent are authentic the rest may have been restored or made new.so even if its composite then its still authentic following the guidelines.
well you like it first why not now?even if its not completly old its still nice.
unless you paid 5000 bucks for it i would call this for under 3000 bucks an fair trade.
the pic of the mark will not help because there are hundrets of marks present which have never reported in literatur-so what shall this help?
collecting is an matter of try and error.you have to pay an certain amount of money to learn your lessons from.of course its never unwise to start humble and create an certain sense for the stuff before one buys such noble expensive stuff.
but the market is as it is.if you do not like you resell it.thats simple and effective.its nice and will of course find an new home with ease.maybe even for more you paid for.
ethics and an high human values have nothing to do with art sellings.
thats an simple comclusion one draws out of 20 years in the collecting.i am prepared that this might arouse some people in embaresmenet but if one has an close eye on the art market on see it like it is.
i sold some years an fragmented war hammer.now this item is for sale in an auction house with an new made wooden handle and lower iron shoe.it is labeled as completly authentic.which it is not.i know because it was once mine and the new owner has restored the lost parts and now labeling it as full genuine.
and of course some idiot will buy it thats for sure.so its an circle and allways an come around.i have seen some stuff over the years circling the same auction hall three four times.
thats the funny aspect in this art sales....simply to much money around
so one can get high emotions over such but one does not need to
its quite the normal.if you like it or not.
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