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Ian F. Hathaway




Location: Italy
Joined: 22 Mar 2010

Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sat 21 Aug, 2010 1:20 pm    Post subject: Help on looking for a side sword         Reply with quote

Hello everyone,
my name is Ian, this is my first post, although i'f been following the web site for some time! (hope its the wright forum!)
I'm a college student at the university of Pavia (Italy) and a Nova Scrimia student.
Recently, while writing a paper for my thesys and reading avidly many of our XVIth century italian masters, i made up my mind to buy a side sword. problem is, i dont really know where to look.
To be exact, i'd like something to work through the Assalti from Marozzo and Manciolino (and to charish as my most prized possession ) Wink !!
One other point, it has to not be sharp, according to italian law...
Could I please ask for some advice in the matter? Where to look for a good side sword?
Thanks in advance Happy
Ian
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Sat 21 Aug, 2010 1:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi and welcome to the site (officially as a member!):

Being that you're in Italy and you're looking for a blunt (unsharpened) sword, I think you need not to look much further than Del Tin Armi Antiche.

They have a number of swords that fit your description and would serve you well.

Another dealer of Del Tin that is located in the United States that might be better for us US customers is Kult of Athena. They have a lot of good photos of the Del Tin products as well.

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Reece Nelson




Location: Overland Park KS
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Likes: 2 pages

Posts: 257

PostPosted: Sat 21 Aug, 2010 1:30 pm    Post subject: side sword         Reply with quote

Seeing how you're a student and probably have a budget, I would recommend a hanwei hand in a half. http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=...Generation

These are great swords for the price! Great handling and balance.

Of course some of the best blunts out there are gonna be Albions, my opinion. They cost a lot more but there worth it!
http://www.albion-europe.com/swords/swords-by...estro.aspx

Hope this helps!
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Steven Reich




Location: Arlington, VA
Joined: 28 Oct 2003

Posts: 237

PostPosted: Sat 21 Aug, 2010 2:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ian,

If you're going to stay in Italy, I'd ask your instructors, as they will have a better idea of what is available in Europe than I will. However, I am partial to Arms & Armor and Darkwood as good options in the US. I also like Del Tin, and since you're in Italy, you might be able to get them cheaper. If you want an inexpensive alternative, you could go with the Hanwei Practical Knightly sword, understanding that it is really a medieval arming sword and doesn't have a complex hilt.

One thing you should consider is whether you are getting the sword for solo practice or paired drills. In the latter case, you want to be sure to get a weapon with a blade designed for rigorous drilling (i.e. hard blade-on-blade contact).

In response to a recommendation to get a Hanwei Hand and a Half--I'd have to say that that sword is too big for predominantly single-handed practice (which is what Ian is looking for).

Steve
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Ian F. Hathaway




Location: Italy
Joined: 22 Mar 2010

Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sat 21 Aug, 2010 2:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you so much for the really fast reply!!
To clarify, I am looking for a single handed sword, rather than a two hander (Marozzo does have Assalti for both, but I'd rather start with the former)
Del Tin is actually a good option...for some reason i had not considered it!
I must admit that the idea of an Albion was bouncing around in my mind (for just this time I have a rather larger budget than usuall) Happy, but its seems that theyr Marozzo maestro line is not available yet...
Thanks again!!
Ian
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Steven Reich




Location: Arlington, VA
Joined: 28 Oct 2003

Posts: 237

PostPosted: Sat 21 Aug, 2010 2:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ian F. Hathaway wrote:
I must admit that the idea of an Albion was bouncing around in my mind (for just this time I have a rather larger budget than usuall) Happy, but its seems that theyr Marozzo maestro line is not available yet...

I was able to handle the prototype blade and thought it was quite good, although I haven't seen the hilt yet. However, I don't think it is worth waiting for (i.e. and not getting a sword in the meantime) as the blade wasn't out of the performance range of others that are available and who knows how long it will be before the sword is out...

Steve
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Paul Hansen




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Likes: 5 pages

Posts: 683

PostPosted: Mon 23 Aug, 2010 6:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that Del Tin swords are unsharpened as opposed to having a safe edge for sparring. But I readily admit to never having handled a Del Tin side sword.
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Mon 23 Aug, 2010 6:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Paul Hansen wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that Del Tin swords are unsharpened as opposed to having a safe edge for sparring. But I readily admit to never having handled a Del Tin side sword.


They're pretty blunt. By and large, often more blunt in fact than the Albion maestro line.

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Steven Reich




Location: Arlington, VA
Joined: 28 Oct 2003

Posts: 237

PostPosted: Mon 23 Aug, 2010 6:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Paul Hansen wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that Del Tin swords are unsharpened as opposed to having a safe edge for sparring. But I readily admit to never having handled a Del Tin side sword.

That is my experience as well. I would not consider them safe for freeplay, and if used for contact drilling, the blades are going to get chewed up. In addition, if you get an Arms & Armor sword for drilling/freeplay, you should get it mounted with a training blade.

Steve
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Ian F. Hathaway




Location: Italy
Joined: 22 Mar 2010

Posts: 3

PostPosted: Mon 23 Aug, 2010 9:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

One more question please Wink
In English, do "blunt" and "unsharpened" mean the same thing? (sorry, english is my second language Happy)
And in that case the "training blade" would have a rather wider edge, rounded point, and generally a different blade geometry than a blunt?
In any case the opinion I get from most reenactment in norther Italy is that Del Tin swords tend to be a little delicate when in comes to sparring...I gues thats why they offer reinforced blades now!
In any case, they do look good, so I think I'll just drive up to Pordenone when I have a chance and see what they feal like Happy!
Thanks!
Ian
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Mon 23 Aug, 2010 9:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ian F. Hathaway wrote:
One more question please Wink
In English, do "blunt" and "unsharpened" mean the same thing? (sorry, english is my second language Happy)
And in that case the "training blade" would have a rather wider edge, rounded point, and generally a different blade geometry than a blunt?
In any case the opinion I get from most reenactment in norther Italy is that Del Tin swords tend to be a little delicate when in comes to sparring...I gues thats why they offer reinforced blades now!
In any case, they do look good, so I think I'll just drive up to Pordenone when I have a chance and see what they feal like Happy!
Thanks!
Ian


Blunt and unsharpened can sort of mean the same in common every day language but in our more specialized discussions an unsharpened blade can have quite a fine edge maybe 1 mm or a little more. A blunt designed for training will generally have thicker edges to be safer to use and also so that the edges won't get damaged too easily.

The edges of a training blunt should be at the very least 1.5 mm thick and closer to 2 mm.

The Del Tins may vary from model to model as I find them rather thin and would need very little work to make them sharp.

One can take an unsharpened Del Tin and remove a bit of the blade's width and depending on it's cross section one could make it safer and duller and closer to a training sword.

I personally see the Del Tins as unsharpened collecting swords but they where originally designed for stage work and meant to be robust enough to not take too much edge damage but there are now being made training swords that have thicker edges and specifically designed for training.

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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Mon 23 Aug, 2010 9:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ian F. Hathaway wrote:
In English, do "blunt" and "unsharpened" mean the same thing?


I think a lot of people use them interchangeably. I know I have done so and it's unfortunate because it doesn't tell the whole story. There's a lot of variety to edge geometries and purpose-built swords meant for sparring are certainly quite different than simply having a blunted longsword or any other term describing one that is just not sharpened. As indicated above, Del Tin swords are not purpose-built as training tools. While their edges may be thick (and as I mention, often thicker than the Mestro Line swords) they are softer and really ding up quite a bit. They're quite a different thing.

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