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Zach Luna




Location: Los Angeles
Joined: 04 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: Sun 15 Aug, 2010 8:50 pm    Post subject: Safe Temperatures for Swords?         Reply with quote

My home is about to undergo a procedure where the temperature will be raised to 120-140 degrees Fahrenheit for about twelve hours.

Is this safe for the heat treatment on my swords? I know that this is a comparatively low and safe temperature for a sword to be subjected to for a moment or so, but the sheer duration of the higher-than-normal temperature is making me somewhat nervous.

I know that everything will probably be fine, but I just want to check and ask if any of the blade smiths or experts on heat-treating or more experienced members know if this could have any adverse effects. My collection includes swords by Windlass, Cold Steel, Hanwei, Sonny-era Valiant Armoury, Baltimore Knife and Sword, Angus Trim, Christian Fletcher and Albion, and are almost uniformly through-hardened European blades. (My Angus Trim and BKS swords are currently on vacation to get spruced up however, and not present)


Anybody know if this sauna treatment would have an effect on my beauties?
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JE Sarge
Industry Professional



PostPosted: Sun 15 Aug, 2010 9:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Zach,

The temper of your blades would not be affected until the temp reached area of 400F+. They will be just fine. Happy

J.E. Sarge
Crusader Monk Sword Scabbards and Customizations
www.crusadermonk.com

"But lack of documentation, especially for such early times, is not to be considered as evidence of non-existance." - Ewart Oakeshott
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Jeremy V. Krause




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PostPosted: Sun 15 Aug, 2010 9:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ok I gotta ask. . .

What the he#$ kind of "procedure" is going to befall your house?

Inquiring minds what to know. . . . . WTF?!
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JE Sarge
Industry Professional



PostPosted: Sun 15 Aug, 2010 9:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I was about to edit my post to ask the same question. LOL. Laughing Out Loud
J.E. Sarge
Crusader Monk Sword Scabbards and Customizations
www.crusadermonk.com

"But lack of documentation, especially for such early times, is not to be considered as evidence of non-existance." - Ewart Oakeshott
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Zach Luna




Location: Los Angeles
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PostPosted: Sun 15 Aug, 2010 9:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hahaha, just some pesticide-free extermination of household pests. Laughing Out Loud

Thanks for the reassurance, folks.
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Jeremy V. Krause




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PostPosted: Sun 15 Aug, 2010 9:55 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

OOOHHH. . . .

Good to know everything is on the "up and up". Big Grin
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Colt Reeves





Joined: 09 Mar 2009

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PostPosted: Sun 15 Aug, 2010 10:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That was gonna be my first guess, though I've never heard of doing it that way before. I wonder what would be affected by such a thing... electronics? Some plastics? Paint on the walls?
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Zach Luna




Location: Los Angeles
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PostPosted: Sun 15 Aug, 2010 10:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Colt Reeves wrote:
That was gonna be my first guess, though I've never heard of doing it that way before. I wonder what would be affected by such a thing... electronics? Some plastics? Paint on the walls?


Wax-based products, aerosols, alcohol-based flammables and oil paintings are to be removed. That last one's gonna be a bear. Worried Electronics are supposed to be fine, we'll see.
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Mon 16 Aug, 2010 12:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Zach Luna wrote:
Colt Reeves wrote:
That was gonna be my first guess, though I've never heard of doing it that way before. I wonder what would be affected by such a thing... electronics? Some plastics? Paint on the walls?


Wax-based products, aerosols, alcohol-based flammables and oil paintings are to be removed. That last one's gonna be a bear. Worried Electronics are supposed to be fine, we'll see.


Well leather handles on swords, scabbards might be affected by chemicals as well as the heat might change the humidity in the wood parts and have them shrink or warp ? Don't know but it might be a good idea to store you swords some place else ?

Any chemical deposits even if not corrosive might leave unpleasant films on surfaces ? Make sure you get as much information before leaving anything expensive or hard to replace in the house.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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JE Sarge
Industry Professional



PostPosted: Mon 16 Aug, 2010 1:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'd be more worried about the chemicals - as Jean stated - than I would the temp. I've left swords/scabbards a plenty in hot trunks all day long in the dead of the Georgia summer, with temps higher than that with no ill-effects. If the wood is kiln-dried / stabilized - then I'd not be overly concerned with warpage, I've never experienced such. I am pretty sure the heat would not cause a problem, confidently enough where I would leave anything in my own collection in it - but that's me.

I mean, lookit - the Crusaders did it for a couple centuries... Wink

But, to err on the safe side, why not just toss them in your trunk or dump them at a friend's house if they are a concern to you? That way, it would seem like it would offer you a little more piece of mind - opinions aside. Happy

J.E. Sarge
Crusader Monk Sword Scabbards and Customizations
www.crusadermonk.com

"But lack of documentation, especially for such early times, is not to be considered as evidence of non-existance." - Ewart Oakeshott
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Zach Luna




Location: Los Angeles
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PostPosted: Mon 16 Aug, 2010 1:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

JE Sarge wrote:
I'd be more worried about the chemicals - as Jean stated - than I would the temp. I've left swords/scabbards a plenty in hot trunks all day long in the dead of the Georgia summer, with temps higher than that with no ill-effects. If the wood is kiln-dried / stabilized - then I'd not be overly concerned with warpage, I've never experienced such. I am pretty sure the heat would not cause a problem, confidently enough where I would leave anything in my own collection in it - but that's me.

I mean, lookit - the Crusaders did it for a couple centuries... Wink

But, to err on the safe side, why not just toss them in your trunk or dump them at a friend's house if they are a concern to you? That way, it would seem like it would offer you a little more piece of mind - opinions aside. Happy


Well, there aren't going to be any chemicals used, just heat (That's one of the reasons we went with this procedure) so I'm not worried about chemical residue or anything. I'd love to take my swords out of there for peace of mind (And If I'd heard anything from y'all about risks I'd have pulled 'em) but we're trying to make sure everything that could have nigh-microscopic bug eggs on it stays and gets the heat wave to sterilize and avoid bringing any pests back in. So stuff like the art will get hit hot for a while to kill any possible bugs and then moved outside before the paintings are at risk of damage, but they recommend whatever can stay the full time, stays the full time. Maybe I'll just have the swords pulled a while after the art.

Thanks for everyone's help and answers, I'm a bit less freaked out now. Happy
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Sean O Stevens




Location: Grovetown, GA
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PostPosted: Mon 16 Aug, 2010 4:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have never heard of anything like this... where on earth did you discover this 'procedure'? Is it done by a company that has a website, I'd love to look it up... or did some friend of yuors just go 'Hey, if we heat up your place stuff should die!' or something? How exactly are you going to get the tempature up that high in your place anyway?

Very weird.

120... even 130 would not likely kill things here in my place... it is often over 110 in the summer months... blegh... and my grarage and attic become much hotter, and bugs still manage to live there.Not sure heating the place up to 140 is a for sure kill of everything.

As for me, if I were to do something like this... I likely would remove my swords beforehand, due to the wood and leather issues that could occur from being at that temp for that long. You can spot-treat your swords after you take em out if you really think there are bugs on em.
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Zach Luna




Location: Los Angeles
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PostPosted: Wed 18 Aug, 2010 10:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sean O Stevens wrote:
I have never heard of anything like this... where on earth did you discover this 'procedure'? Is it done by a company that has a website, I'd love to look it up... or did some friend of yuors just go 'Hey, if we heat up your place stuff should die!' or something? How exactly are you going to get the tempature up that high in your place anyway?

Very weird.

120... even 130 would not likely kill things here in my place... it is often over 110 in the summer months... blegh... and my grarage and attic become much hotter, and bugs still manage to live there.Not sure heating the place up to 140 is a for sure kill of everything.

As for me, if I were to do something like this... I likely would remove my swords beforehand, due to the wood and leather issues that could occur from being at that temp for that long. You can spot-treat your swords after you take em out if you really think there are bugs on em.


Sean it is a reputable company with a website, etc. I can send you a quick pm with a link, but I'd rather not expound all the specifics on the forum.

It suffices to say that we're not trying to kill everything, just one very specific insect species that we've had a problem with. Since the eggs aren't visible to the naked eye, we wanted to try as much as possible to cut down any chance of bringing them back in.



At any rate, after some hemming and hawing, I decided to let the swords take the heat and hope for the best. I oiled the swords and conditioned the grips beforehand, and I'm happy to report that when I got back after the treatment, it turns out everything survived without a single defect. Big Grin A couple scabbards felt a tiny bit looser than I remembered, but as everything cooled down they seemed to have tightened back up to normal. I want to thank everyone for their advice and information, it made the process a lot less scary than it had been. Cool
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Matthew Stagmer
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Location: Maryland, USA
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PostPosted: Wed 18 Aug, 2010 10:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If you dont know the exact temps you can always use the color rule. If the blade isnt hot enough to change color then your almost always fine! If you start seeing that straw color...then your starting to effect the temper.
Matthew Stagmer
Maker of custom and production weaponry
www.BaltimoreKnife.com
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Eric Meulemans
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PostPosted: Wed 18 Aug, 2010 1:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This is a proven and widely used method of eliminating structure-wide infestations of powder-post and deathwatch beetle. If you find holes in wooden items in your home (framing, furniture) about the size of a pencil tip, which seem to be emitting sawdust (known in this instance as "frass") you are likely sharing your residence with one of these common wood-boring pests.

Incidentally, for spot treatments microwave guns can also be employed, zapping the little buggers and their larvae like popcorn. Happy
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Al Muckart




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PostPosted: Wed 18 Aug, 2010 2:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If you've got any swords where the grip covers are held on with hide glue (as I believe Albion's are), you'll want to remove them. That level of heat will melt the glue.
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Al.
http://wherearetheelves.net
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Thomas R.




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PostPosted: Thu 19 Aug, 2010 7:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Eric Meulemans wrote:
This is a proven and widely used method of eliminating structure-wide infestations of powder-post and deathwatch beetle. If you find holes in wooden items in your home (framing, furniture) about the size of a pencil tip, which seem to be emitting sawdust (known in this instance as "frass") you are likely sharing your residence with one of these common wood-boring pests.

Incidentally, for spot treatments microwave guns can also be employed, zapping the little buggers and their larvae like popcorn. Happy


Microwave guns? How cool is that? Show us some pics of them... Happy) Think of the possibilities: microwaving your popcorn with just a shot from the hip, across the living room... harharhar... ok I am getting carried away...

http://maerenundlobebaeren.tumblr.com/
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Jeremy V. Krause




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PostPosted: Thu 19 Aug, 2010 10:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thomas R. wrote:
Eric Meulemans wrote:
This is a proven and widely used method of eliminating structure-wide infestations of powder-post and deathwatch beetle. If you find holes in wooden items in your home (framing, furniture) about the size of a pencil tip, which seem to be emitting sawdust (known in this instance as "frass") you are likely sharing your residence with one of these common wood-boring pests.

Incidentally, for spot treatments microwave guns can also be employed, zapping the little buggers and their larvae like popcorn. Happy


Microwave guns? How cool is that? Show us some pics of them... Happy) Think of the possibilities: microwaving your popcorn with just a shot from the hip, across the living room... harharhar... ok I am getting carried away...


Oh I'm TOTALLY with you here!! Think of the possibilities. . . . .
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Eric Meulemans
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PostPosted: Fri 20 Aug, 2010 1:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

For your peace of mind, I can tell you that in fact, the grips on Albion's swords are exposed to temperatures of up to 140 degrees Fahrenheit for periods of several hours during manufacture. I cannot make any guarantees, but I believe they would be fine during the procedure. I of course can't speak as to any other manufacturer's construction but it is reasonable to assume that given so many like items are treated via this process without undue harm, you should be ok.

Thomas R. wrote:
Microwave guns? How cool is that? Show us some pics of them... Happy


As requested:
http://pestcemetery.com/wp-content/uploads/20...metery.jpg
http://www.zwaagtermite.com/images/microwave-treatment-14.gif
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Zach Luna




Location: Los Angeles
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PostPosted: Fri 20 Aug, 2010 9:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks again. All the swords did indeed survive without incident. Big Grin
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