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Sander Marechal




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PostPosted: Sat 14 Aug, 2010 4:34 pm    Post subject: Dumb question about kettle hats and spears         Reply with quote

I have a rather dumb question about wearing a kettle hat and carrying a spear. How do you carry the spear properly? Every time I carry a spear while wearing a kettle hat, the spear shaft (held in my right hand, resting over my right shoulder) keeps banging into the brim of the helmet. It also pushes my head to the left. I really have to tilt the spear backwards or tilt my head to the left to prevent that. It's at its worst when we are marching.

How are you carrying your spears?
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John McDonald




Location: Wellington.NewZealand
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PostPosted: Sat 14 Aug, 2010 9:55 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Have you tried carrying it in the crook of your elbow.
Stick to thy gear,hold fast to thy arms till the stern fight with its weapon glitter be ended.
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Sander Marechal




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PostPosted: Sat 14 Aug, 2010 11:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nope, but I'll give that a try. Thanks!
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Elling Polden




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PostPosted: Sun 15 Aug, 2010 5:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Just carry it thumb down. Thus, it will rest more closely on you shoulder, and you can tilt it so that goes under the brim. Unelss you have an obcenely wide brim.
"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
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Luke Zechman




Location: Lock Haven Pennsylvania
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PostPosted: Sun 15 Aug, 2010 8:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here is a thought... maybe an infantry men wouldn't be wearing his helmet while on the march. I think the Roman (not 100% on this) wore their helmets on their front while marching. Once it is time to wear the helmet (business time), the spear would be at the ready. Just a thought.
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Sander Marechal




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PostPosted: Sun 15 Aug, 2010 9:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Elling Polden wrote:
Just carry it thumb down. Thus, it will rest more closely on you shoulder, and you can tilt it so that goes under the brim. Unelss you have an obcenely wide brim.


I already carry it thumb down. But some of the helmets I wore did have quite wide brims (I don't own a kettle hat, I borrowed a few for specific events).
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Elling Polden




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PostPosted: Mon 16 Aug, 2010 1:13 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Luke Zechman wrote:
Here is a thought... maybe an infantry men wouldn't be wearing his helmet while on the march. I think the Roman (not 100% on this) wore their helmets on their front while marching. Once it is time to wear the helmet (business time), the spear would be at the ready. Just a thought.


Problem is that, like most other armour, helmets are best carried on the head. Having a kettlehat hanging from your belt for an extended period of time is rather unconfortable.
The romans solved this by having carriages for the heavy equipment, which was also legion-level equipment (owned by the state and distributed when needed). In the middle ages, warriors typically owned their own equipment, and had less common infrastructure.

Sander; I never really found this to be a problem. It might just be a matter of getting used to the equipment. However, precise drill is mostly a renaisance thing. In the middle ages you can carry your spear any way you like. Wink

"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
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Chuck Russell




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PostPosted: Mon 16 Aug, 2010 2:13 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

umm no Romans carried there own gear on the march. they did have pack mules yes, but not for their gear
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Sander Marechal




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PostPosted: Mon 16 Aug, 2010 5:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the tips everyone.

Quote:
However, precise drill is mostly a renaisance thing. In the middle ages you can carry your spear any way you like.


Got sources? I'd love to read more about drilling in the middle ages. We have been basing a lot of what we do off Roman reenactment (a few from our group also do Roman reenactment).
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Lafayette C Curtis




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PostPosted: Wed 18 Aug, 2010 4:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Lack of sources, rather! But I do remember seeing several different ways of carrying polearms in the illustrations to the Maciejowski Bible, so at least that source seems to support the idea that there was no standard position for carrying a spear on the march.
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JE Sarge
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PostPosted: Wed 18 Aug, 2010 4:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

As a modern soldier, I always clipped my helmet to my LBV or IBA when not wearing it. I didn't care if it banged against my other equipment or not, because it was worth not having to wear it. You get tired of having the weight on your head for extended periods of time - moreso in the heat. I can only figure that soldiers on the move in antiquity might do the same thing - but it would be interesting to see some sort of historical documentation as to what the most common practice was.
J.E. Sarge
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"But lack of documentation, especially for such early times, is not to be considered as evidence of non-existance." - Ewart Oakeshott
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Elling Polden




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PostPosted: Thu 19 Aug, 2010 6:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chuck; Seems they did in "Marius" system. I was confusing it with late legions, where armour was more scarce...

JE: I do the same with my modern helmet, either by a quick relase shackle or a lanyard. There is however significant differences; medevial helmets are heavier, and, most importantly, the only attatchment point is the belt. This means that walking around with your kettlehat in the belt, while handier than having it on the head, strains you hips. It is of course still freqently done, but not ideal.

You can of course attatch the helmet to some other baggage carrying equipment. I have at times carried mine on the strap of my medevial shoulder bag.

"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
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David Rushworth




Location: Leeds, England
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PostPosted: Sun 05 Sep, 2010 1:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A lot of 16th and 17th C morions have a suspension hole or ring matching a hook on the cuirass, not derectly relevant to 14thC, other than same role and type, but indicative of what a pest a heavy helmet is. By the way, my osteopath recons long term wearing of a heavy steel helmet permenantly damaged my neck, so, I'd advise the carry slung option.
Never ascribe to malice what is adequately explained as stupidity.
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