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Richard Jao





Joined: 15 Jun 2010

Posts: 11

PostPosted: Thu 29 Jul, 2010 10:45 pm    Post subject: Weapons of the Parisian Apaches         Reply with quote

I found a very interesting picture that displays the weapons of the Parisian Apaches. Not the North American tribe, but the early 20th century French street thugs that became rather infamous for their brutality.



While I see there were several kinds of knives, I'm actually unsure of what those non-bladed weapons are. Are those weighted scarves or blackjacks of some sort?

And would anybody happen to know what other kinds of weapons these street thugs would've used? Cane swords, revolvers, etc?
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Stephane Rabier




Location: Brittany
Joined: 13 Nov 2006

Posts: 104

PostPosted: Fri 30 Jul, 2010 1:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi,
I guess the left one is a weighted stocking and the right one is a "nerf de boeuf"", a kind of traditionnal blackjack, not made from an ox nerve (in spite of its French name) but from a bull... err ... well, it can't be made from a cow Blush
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Sa'ar Nudel




Location: Haifa, Israel
Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Likes: 16 pages

Posts: 354

PostPosted: Fri 30 Jul, 2010 9:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Stephane Rabier wrote:
Hi,
I guess the left one is a weighted stocking and the right one is a "nerf de boeuf"", a kind of traditionnal blackjack, not made from an ox nerve (in spite of its French name) but from a bull... err ... well, it can't be made from a cow Blush


Fighting/walking canes and sjamboks were also made from that material.
Perhaps the most notorious weapon of the apache gangs what the apache-pistol, a combination weapon consisted of a small pepperbox-style revolver (chambered usually for 8mm pinfire cartridges) with a folding bayonet and a folding knuckleduster grip.
http://www.sciencepunk.com/v5/gallery/dolneapache06.JPG
http://skydeviler.hawkdog.net/pub/pix/apache2.jpg

Further more, anyone visiting Paris MUST pay a visit to the local police museum, within the large police station of the Latin Quarter, they have a vast collection of weaponry seized from the apache gangs.

Curator of Beit Ussishkin, regional nature & history museum, Upper Galilee.
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Richard Jao





Joined: 15 Jun 2010

Posts: 11

PostPosted: Fri 30 Jul, 2010 9:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for your comment guys!

So those were blackjacks? Ah, thanks for clearing that up! Am I correct in assuming as well that the bar beneath the knives was some sort of crowbar? I also can't make out the object that's right below the center dagger...it might be a razor of some sort but I'm rather stumped.

I did see the Apache pistol, and it really is an interesting weapon since it looks so weirdly versatile! From the looks of it though, the range of this weapon would've been extremely crappy. Does anyone know if the Parisian Apaches used a more conventional revolver or pistol?
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Eric W. Norenberg





Joined: 18 Jul 2008

Posts: 265

PostPosted: Fri 30 Jul, 2010 10:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'd bet that shell-shaped object is a bladed tool, used as an improvised weapon, a leather skivving knife, some kind of scraper, maybe something for chopping herbs really fine. You know, kid from the 'burbs moves to Paris, drops out of the culinary institute, next thing you know he's running with the local thugs... happens all the time. Not an ideal weapon, but neither is a linoleum knife, and we've all seen "Eastern Promises," right?

That impact weapon on the right is, I think, some kind of slung shot. I don't think it is any kind of bull parts, in my VERY limited experience with such things it's the penis, not the testis, that gets dried/shaped into a walking staff. Hey, like the real Apaches, use every part of the animal, right? I'd bet the thing is something like a monkey's fist, in that it could be worn around the neck as an "innocent" pendant, overlooked by the police in a crowd.

Where did you find that illustration, by the way? Thanks for sharing it.

-Eric
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Ken Paulson




Location: wisconsin
Joined: 01 Aug 2012

Posts: 1

PostPosted: Fri 03 Aug, 2012 7:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Old post I know but I was suprised to find this on a french auction last week and though I would add this picture .


 Attachment: 148.66 KB
100_0767.JPG


 Attachment: 144.18 KB
100_0765.JPG

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Stephane Rabier




Location: Brittany
Joined: 13 Nov 2006

Posts: 104

PostPosted: Sat 04 Aug, 2012 1:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi,
nice find, a "poing Américain" (yes, it's called an "American fist" in France) but I've never seen one like that.
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Kurt Scholz





Joined: 09 Dec 2008

Posts: 390

PostPosted: Sat 04 Aug, 2012 2:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

the notorious Apache revolver. see wikipedia for more sources http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_revolver
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Sam Gordon Campbell




Location: Australia.
Joined: 16 Nov 2008

Posts: 677

PostPosted: Sat 04 Aug, 2012 6:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Makes me want to read through Défense Dans la Rue if I could find a copy Happy
Member of Australia's Stoccata School of Defence since 2008.
Host of Crash Course HEMA.
Founder of The Van Dieman's Land Stage Gladiators.
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Phil Crawley




Location: Auld Reekie- Capital village o'Jockland
Joined: 12 Dec 2007

Posts: 42

PostPosted: Tue 07 Aug, 2012 2:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Weapons of the Parisian Apaches         Reply with quote

Richard Jao wrote:
And would anybody happen to know what other kinds of weapons these street thugs would've used? Cane swords, revolvers, etc?

Emile Andre wrote a text on how a gentleman may use the Apache's weapons against them as well as unarmed defences using kicking, boxing, wrestling and Jiujitsu in "How to defend youself- with and without arms". See my sig for an Englsh langauge translation.

He included details on- dagger, stiletto, cutlass/large knife, sword cane, sap, truncheon/blackjack, cane, knuckleduster and revolver/automatic pistol ( with passing reference to the Apache pistol which combined all these elements), and also recommended using hats, jackets, or bags in the offhand as a buckler, as well as throwing objects to distract an aggressor.

There were also these knuckleduster variants- one bearing a remarkable (though coincidental) similarity to James Keating's modern "Stinger"
http://www.bartitsu.org/index.php/2010/07/fin...n-apaches/

-- Angels also carry weapons --
http://www.blackboarswordsmanship.co.uk/
http://www.blackboarswordsmanship.co.uk/symposium.html
http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/PhilCrawley
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Graham Shearlaw





Joined: 24 Oct 2011

Posts: 77

PostPosted: Fri 10 Aug, 2012 12:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

other than the famed Apache pistol there is this

as it turns out brass knuckles with blades or spikes are realy commen.
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Kurt Scholz





Joined: 09 Dec 2008

Posts: 390

PostPosted: Fri 10 Aug, 2012 2:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Why do they have a revolver instead of a pepper-box arrangement?
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Phil Crawley




Location: Auld Reekie- Capital village o'Jockland
Joined: 12 Dec 2007

Posts: 42

PostPosted: Fri 10 Aug, 2012 3:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I suspect the mass production of personal pocket revolvers in the era (churned out in their thousands by Belgian producers alone, often in 7mm calibres) meant that revolver chambers and mechanisms were readily available to be adapted or incorporated into such items.
-- Angels also carry weapons --
http://www.blackboarswordsmanship.co.uk/
http://www.blackboarswordsmanship.co.uk/symposium.html
http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/PhilCrawley
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