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Justin Wolfe




Location: America
Joined: 15 Apr 2010

Posts: 6

PostPosted: Thu 22 Jul, 2010 4:23 pm    Post subject: Help identifying a sword (My first post)         Reply with quote

Hey fellas, I'm pretty sure this is my first post. I need some help identifying a sword. Anything you might know would help.


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16thCTrueTHs1.jpg
It's the one on the right.
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Nathan Quarantillo




Location: Eastern Panhandle WV, USA
Joined: 14 Aug 2009

Posts: 279

PostPosted: Thu 22 Jul, 2010 7:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi, Welcome to myArmoury! Big Grin
As far as that sword goes, a lot has to do with that blade. I'm having trouble telling weather it is blade have the wavy pattern of the left one (to a lesser degree) or if thats the camera and my bad eyes.
Wavy blade=early/mid 16th century, stereotypical Zweihander, made famous my Landsknecht doppelsoldners.

If blade is straight, It could be dated as early as late 15th century, as thats when side rings and simple compound hilts such as that start surfacing (and big swords were in fashion also)

The use in both periods was strictly infantry (but you probably knew that) and (obviously) two handed use was required. These were big swords used by big guys. Lots of armour would be preferable, as you are gonna attract a lot of attention with these things, and the enormous length and wavy blade pattern (works hell on your distal taper I'd think) would make the sword somewhat slow (not to be translated as cumbersome or unwieldy). Although that reach in itself is also a defense.

In a Landsknecht's hands, this thing would be an anti-pike weapon. used to push big gaps in a pike wall to disrupt the enemy formation and allow your own soldiers past their pike wall defense. It was also said to be able to chop the pike tips off. if it's dated to the earlier period, It probably wouldn't be so specialized in use, but the tactics would still apply, as pike tactics were widespread then too.

Well I hope that can hold you over until a more educated forumite can get to you.

"Id rather be historically accurate than politically correct"
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Thu 22 Jul, 2010 7:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Quarantillo wrote:
As far as that sword goes, a lot has to do with that blade. I'm having trouble telling weather it is blade have the wavy pattern of the left one (to a lesser degree) or if thats the camera and my bad eyes.


It's a badly-resized image. The sword on the right has straight edges.

It a two-handed sword in the style of a mid- to late-16th century sword, but may be a later make. It's difficult to identify anything in the poor photo.

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Justin Wolfe




Location: America
Joined: 15 Apr 2010

Posts: 6

PostPosted: Thu 22 Jul, 2010 7:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks guys, sorry that's the only picture I could find. I don't really expect to get much info, but it's worth a try.

Last edited by Justin Wolfe on Thu 22 Jul, 2010 7:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Nathan Quarantillo




Location: Eastern Panhandle WV, USA
Joined: 14 Aug 2009

Posts: 279

PostPosted: Thu 22 Jul, 2010 7:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Geez, thats not waves? does anyone have a good image for more accurate information about the piece?
I don't mean to dispute (the other) Nathan, but I think such a sword could be an earlier specimen, as the hilt is relatively simple. Side rings are cropping up by the late 15th cent, and it wouldn't look out of place in some of Landsknecht illustrations from earlier years in the 16th cent.
However, It's cataloging with the other sword, which is SCREAMING mid late 16th cent, means that you are probably correct on the dating.

"Id rather be historically accurate than politically correct"
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Sam Barris




Location: San Diego, California
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PostPosted: Thu 22 Jul, 2010 7:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Robinson wrote:
It's a badly-resized image. The sword on the right has straight edges.

It does look that way, but why doesn't the effect extend to the guard? I would have thought that the entire image would be similarly distorted.

Pax,
Sam Barris

"Any nation that draws too great a distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards, and its fighting done by fools." —Thucydides
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Thu 22 Jul, 2010 8:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sam Barris wrote:
Nathan Robinson wrote:
It's a badly-resized image. The sword on the right has straight edges.

It does look that way, but why doesn't the effect extend to the guard? I would have thought that the entire image would be similarly distorted.


It does. The whole image was resized using "nearest neighbor" interpolation. Artifacts exist across the entire image.

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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Thu 22 Jul, 2010 8:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Robinson wrote:
Sam Barris wrote:
Nathan Robinson wrote:
It's a badly-resized image. The sword on the right has straight edges.

It does look that way, but why doesn't the effect extend to the guard? I would have thought that the entire image would be similarly distorted.


It does. The whole image was resized using "nearest neighbor" interpolation. Artifacts exist across the entire image.


Trust me Nathan is right. Wink Big Grin I worked in video for years in the stone age of low resolution and nasty stair stepping because of low resolution and tearing in video special effects made even worse if the wrong coding codex was used.

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Thomas R.




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PostPosted: Fri 23 Jul, 2010 6:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Look at those almost similar shaped rings on the guards. I suspect these two are later repros done by the same swordmaker. But as Nathan said: the picture is badly resized.
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Dave Leppo




Location: Dover, PA, USA
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PostPosted: Fri 23 Jul, 2010 7:09 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Think I found the source of the photos (or another reproduction thereof):

http://www.thearma.org/essays/2HGS.html scroll down a little

unfortunately, I didn't notice any pic. credits herein, but some other interesting data.

-Dave
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Fri 23 Jul, 2010 9:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dave Leppo wrote:
Think I found the source of the photos (or another reproduction thereof):

http://www.thearma.org/essays/2HGS.html scroll down a little


The filename for that image indicates 16th century.

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Sam Barris




Location: San Diego, California
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PostPosted: Mon 26 Jul, 2010 9:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Robinson wrote:
It does. The whole image was resized using "nearest neighbor" interpolation. Artifacts exist across the entire image.

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Trust me Nathan is right. Wink Big Grin I worked in video for years in the stone age of low resolution and nasty stair stepping because of low resolution and tearing in video special effects made even worse if the wrong coding codex was used.

Oh, I believe you both. I'm still not sure I'm quite seeing it myself, but I'll take your word for it. Both of you have greater experience in these matters than than I. Happy

Pax,
Sam Barris

"Any nation that draws too great a distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards, and its fighting done by fools." —Thucydides
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Scott Hrouda




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PostPosted: Mon 26 Jul, 2010 11:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Greetings Justin!

Have you attempted to contact Mr. John Clements? He is the ARMA Director and the author of the article "The Weighty Issue of Two-Handed Greatswords". I'm sure that either he or someone else within ARMA would be able to help you source the photograph.

...and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped. - Sir Bedevere
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Justin Wolfe




Location: America
Joined: 15 Apr 2010

Posts: 6

PostPosted: Mon 26 Jul, 2010 6:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Scott Hrouda wrote:
Greetings Justin!

Have you attempted to contact Mr. John Clements? He is the ARMA Director and the author of the article "The Weighty Issue of Two-Handed Greatswords". I'm sure that either he or someone else within ARMA would be able to help you source the photograph.


I may just end up doing that. Good idea. To be honest though, it was really just a passing interest. See, I came into some spare money recently and I was thinking of getting my grubby hands on a custom sword. I thought the sword in question would be a good starting point for my own design.
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Scott Hrouda




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PostPosted: Mon 26 Jul, 2010 7:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Justin Wolfe wrote:
I may just end up doing that. Good idea. To be honest though, it was really just a passing interest. See, I came into some spare money recently and I was thinking of getting my grubby hands on a custom sword. I thought the sword in question would be a good starting point for my own design.
I could use a riveted mail hauberk, depending on how much "spare money" you have! Wink I don't know enough about quality, custom weapons to be much help. There are plenty of knowledgeable folks here that would love to help you though. Good luck!
...and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped. - Sir Bedevere
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Harry J. Fletcher




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PostPosted: Mon 26 Jul, 2010 8:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There is a picture of a sword similar to this in Weapon, A Visual History of Arms and Armour by DK Publishing which shows a parade zweihander or doppelsoddner sword quite similar to this. Most swords of this type for practical use had a straight edge as the the book says about the 16th century.

Regards,

Harry

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