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Maurizio D'Angelo




Location: Italy
Joined: 09 Feb 2009
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Reading list: 3 books

Posts: 649

PostPosted: Thu 08 Jul, 2010 5:34 pm    Post subject: marked before or after         Reply with quote

I have a question.
Swords and armor were marked before or after hardening?

Ciao
Maurizio
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Ozsváth Árpád-István




Location: Romania
Joined: 27 Apr 2008

Posts: 131

PostPosted: Thu 08 Jul, 2010 8:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ciao Maurizio!

I don't know medieval swords how and when were market, but later 19th century military swords were marked surely after hardening. Maybe the maker's mark or logo was stamped while the blade was still hot, but there are inspection stamps and unit markings which were stamped often in mobile workshops near the frontline where heat treating was impossible.
For example let's say a M1904 cavalry swordr. The blade was made and exported by Alex Coppel, Solingen the sword was hilted and assembled by Pacholek in Budapest inspected in Wien (Wn or Lw inspection mark) and some have multiple unit markings (the older ones were "erased"). It's unlikely that the blade was anealed and rehardened for each stamping. These markings are usually on the ricasso where the blade is much softer. I think the blademaker done all the heat treating process which was his closely guarded secret and later markings were stamped on the cold-stamped.
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Maurizio D'Angelo




Location: Italy
Joined: 09 Feb 2009
Likes: 3 pages
Reading list: 3 books

Posts: 649

PostPosted: Fri 09 Jul, 2010 12:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ozsváth Árpád-István wrote:
Ciao Maurizio!

I don't know medieval swords how and when were market, but later 19th century military swords were marked surely after hardening. Maybe the maker's mark or logo was stamped while the blade was still hot, but there are inspection stamps and unit markings which were stamped often in mobile workshops near the frontline where heat treating was impossible.
For example let's say a M1904 cavalry swordr. The blade was made and exported by Alex Coppel, Solingen the sword was hilted and assembled by Pacholek in Budapest inspected in Wien (Wn or Lw inspection mark) and some have multiple unit markings (the older ones were "erased"). It's unlikely that the blade was anealed and rehardened for each stamping. These markings are usually on the ricasso where the blade is much softer. I think the blademaker done all the heat treating process which was his closely guarded secret and later markings were stamped on the cold-stamped.


I agree with what you say. But...
The question came from a mistake of some parts that I make in my workshop. These pieces are normally marked before and after hardened. For an oversight, were hardened without branding. Their hardness is only 45-46 Hrc.
The punch was ruined after a few pieces, because hardened . The punch is hard HRC 62-63.
I remember that armor Misaglia, were marked with three brands, only after passing the test of the crossbow. I know they were hardened. How could he resist the punch?
Make a punch would be very laborious, perhaps the punch was considered valuable, to spoil quickly. Something I do not understand....

Ciao
Maurizio
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Lucas S




Location: poland
Joined: 25 Dec 2007

Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sat 10 Jul, 2010 12:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

hi! i agree with this what was said before(stamps were on soft part of blade - ricasso, tang, or made before hardening on the blade) but i have another one idea. maybe sheets of steel were laminated and the surface where the mark is bitten is soft iron, and only core is hardened steel? like blade of the sword covered by the soft iron to protect from the break.
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Likes: 7 pages

Posts: 2,307

PostPosted: Sat 10 Jul, 2010 2:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Part of the blade near the hilt usually was softer than the rest, right? To be more resilient at the stress point near the tang...
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