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D. Shane Burton




Location: Louisiana
Joined: 01 Jul 2010

Posts: 15

PostPosted: Thu 01 Jul, 2010 7:11 pm    Post subject: Real or Replica CS Officer's sword?         Reply with quote

Hey, everyone, my name is Shane, and I just ran across this site recently. I'm a sword collector, so I joined.

I thought I'd ask you all about a sword a guy I know is trying to determine if its real or replica. I've looked around the web and found out some info from a few sites. Usually, if the star above the CS goes into and over the second rim of brass above it, then its a replica. The period swords just touched.

Replica blade example is shown part of the way down this page:
http://www.savage-station.com/page20.html

The period sword is shown here. A good picture of the guard is down the page:
http://www.civilwarpreservations.com/catdet.a...=swordpers

The upper quillon of the sword in question has the decoration not rounded over its tip like the two above, but it has flat sides and the decoration on just the forward edge. Does this mean replica or separate maker than the ones above? He didn't mention any makers' marks at all.

Here is the picture of the guard of the sword in question. I think its in-between the real and replica, so I'm confused:



 Attachment: 74.09 KB
Hilt 1a.jpg

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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,808

PostPosted: Fri 02 Jul, 2010 7:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Shane,

Quote:
Usually, if the star above the CS goes into and over the second rim of brass above it, then its a replica. The period swords just touched.


One of several indications you may see in the castings and you have mentioned a couple. Then consider that some swords do see some restoration but what else do you see in regard to the sword in question? Also (and for the benefit of any that might care to observe truth and consequences) more than one picture can be really telling. I am certainly no more than a novice in spotting some of the issues but the item you seem to be questioning kind of speaks for itself as being a reproduction. Sure, there are certainly more of these editions but the couple of indicators you posted kind of speak for themselves. There are several more fairly straight forward differences.

Cheers

GC
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Sean Flynt
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Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Fri 02 Jul, 2010 7:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I won't comment on authenticity since it sounds like there's an auction or other sale involved and I don't want to get myself or this site in legal trouble.

As you know, collectors in this field have to be exceedingly careful. There's a an old saying about poker that applies to CSA collecting: If you don't know who the patsy is, it's you.

There are some attractive knives at that site you mentioned Big Grin I wouldn't want a share of that guy's legal jeopardy, though.

For those interested in this sort of thing, here's my amateurish attempt to show how easily a CSA sword might be antiqued:

http://myArmoury.com/feature_bench_ws_cfo.htm...6183876d11

It's no longer in my collection, but I sold to a forum member and, in any case, left the plastic grip core so nobody could be accidentally fooled.



 Attachment: 47.62 KB
pic_bench_ws_cfo26.jpg


-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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D. Shane Burton




Location: Louisiana
Joined: 01 Jul 2010

Posts: 15

PostPosted: Fri 02 Jul, 2010 8:13 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hey guys,

Thanks for the feedback. Actually, it's not in an auction at the moment, though it was on ebay a while ago, but was taken down before it ended. The guy's not sure if its real or replica and he said so when it was on ebay. Now he's trying to figure that out before he decides anything, so he asked me to help. It seems you both feel its a replica, if I'm reading right, and I was leaning that way myself. I'll pass on to him the fact that several people's opinions are leaning toward that evaluation. I'm not a great sword evaluator, so I thought I'd ask here.

I have one sword of my own, which I believe is a Hussar sword from the mid to late 1700s, but I can't find a Hussar sword with a hilt that looks just like the one I have. When I get some pics of that one, I'll start a new thread about it.

Thanks again guys,
Shane
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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,808

PostPosted: Fri 02 Jul, 2010 9:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I love hussar hilts and many are difficult to pin down exactly.

I don't love third person evaluations at all and have found my thoughts quoted exactly in Ebay listings without so much as a thank you. Researching for others in the example you describe makes subsequent conversation a little difficult to participate in. There are professionals that will do their best in evaluations for a fee.

Cheers

GC
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D. Shane Burton




Location: Louisiana
Joined: 01 Jul 2010

Posts: 15

PostPosted: Fri 02 Jul, 2010 10:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'll get that Hussar hilt up as soon as I get home and charge my camera batteries. I've been searching the internet and physical books for a while now, to no avail.

About the CSA sword above, this is the first time I've tried to help someone who's looking to sell a sword and doesn't know what it is. All I told him is that myself and a couple other people believe it's most likely a replica. He originally had language indicating he didn't know if it was real or replica, so he wasn't trying to rip anyone off. That's one of the reasons I've been helping him. I'll have to mention the professional services to him. I think I have a link to one or two of them.

Another random question: Was it common, or even uncommon, for a soldier to cut down the guard of a U. S. Model 1872 cavalry saber? I have one that this has been done to. I'll have to get some pics of that, as well.

Oh, very nice work on making your replica look period, Sean. Happy

Thanks again,
Shane
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