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Jasna Perkovic





Joined: 01 Jul 2010

Posts: 2

PostPosted: Thu 01 Jul, 2010 8:48 am    Post subject: Hunting gun - what kind of a gun is this?         Reply with quote

I'm sorry if I'm posting this at the wrong forum but I've inherited a hunting gun and all I know about it are it's markings:

0,05gr N.G.P. M/71
6gr BI

Can anyone tell me a bit more of what I'm dealing with because I'm rather clueless. It's year, worth, etc. I'd be more than grateful.

Thank you!

I'll include a couple of photos:





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Luke Zechman




Location: Lock Haven Pennsylvania
Joined: 18 Jan 2009

Posts: 278

PostPosted: Thu 01 Jul, 2010 9:38 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hmmmmm It looks like a side by side of two different chamberings. Perhaps it is a .22 and a 410 shotgun all in one. Modern day firearms of this type are usually considered to be "survival guns".
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Joel Minturn





Joined: 10 Dec 2007

Posts: 232

PostPosted: Thu 01 Jul, 2010 12:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I will second that it looks like a .22 .410 combo gun. Is the larger barrel smooth or rifled? But to be sure take the gun to a qualified gun smith and they can verify that.

The .22 .410 combo is a classic combo for both "survival guns" and small game guns. The premise is that you are ready for what ever small animal or bird shows up. The ideal gun for trouncing through the field looking to get what ever is legal to hunt. The .22 .410 combo is also popular because both rounds are fairly easy to shoot and forgiving for younger hunters or those not used to larger calibers. as well as being fairly common.

Making a rough guess on the size of your gun from your hands that may have been a youths rifle. A "Son's first rifle" sort of thing. The gold leaf on the grip makes it look like something was to be treasured and a quality rifle.

Wish I had more to say about your gun but hopefully that helps a little.
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Lin Robinson




Location: NC
Joined: 15 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Thu 01 Jul, 2010 4:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I agree with the other posters. Combination guns were more popular in Europe than in the US although Savage arms at one time produced an over and under combo gun in various calibers and may still be doing so.

It is probably German, based on the markings you list and may not be .22 and .410. Take it to a competent gunsmith for a review prior to chambering and firing any ammunition. There were a lot of unusual calibers in use in the 19th and 20th centuries and this may be chambered for something different. I also suspect this is a gun for a child since its dimensions appear to be small.

It is a very nice looking piece, a classi perhaps. You are a fortunate fellow.

Lin Robinson

"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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Joel Minturn





Joined: 10 Dec 2007

Posts: 232

PostPosted: Thu 01 Jul, 2010 4:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You know the more I look at it, I want to say that the smaller of the barrels looks a bit bigger than .22 caliber. hmm yeah there were a lot of different older calibers out there.
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Likes: 7 pages

Posts: 2,307

PostPosted: Thu 01 Jul, 2010 4:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Lin Robinson wrote:
It is a very nice looking piece, a classi perhaps. You are a fortunate fellow.


She's a female. Wink
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Barry C. Hutchins





Joined: 07 Jul 2009

Posts: 32

PostPosted: Thu 01 Jul, 2010 5:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

From an earlier post about a different weapon…
by
Cal Harling
Tue 05 Dec, 2006 6:59 pm

"..The 0.2 gr NGP M/71 marking refers to the load used in proofing your gun, .2 grains of an early nitro rifle powder used in the first smokeless loads for the 1871 Mauser. This load was not in use long and dates your gun from the 1880s to around 1900..."


I am guessing the information is valid for your weapon, just with a different proofing load for each barrel
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Lin Robinson




Location: NC
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PostPosted: Thu 01 Jul, 2010 6:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Luka Borscak wrote:
Lin Robinson wrote:
It is a very nice looking piece, a classi perhaps. You are a fortunate fellow.


She's a female. Wink


My apologies.

Lin Robinson

"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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Julian Reynolds




Location: United Kingdom
Joined: 30 Mar 2008

Posts: 271

PostPosted: Fri 02 Jul, 2010 12:27 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have a very similar gun, except with 2 x .410 barrels. It's Spanish, and they were made in large numbers (you can pick them up relatively cheaply here in the UK). I'm not saying this one is Spanish, however, most of those I've seen are. Externally mine is almost identical, including the exposed hammers and the serpentine side lever, but without the fancy decoration and a plainer stock. The protruding pivot pin (you can just see it sticking out of the left side), is actually a sprung 'button' that, once pushed in, allows you to fold the gun in two (at least, that's what mine does).

It's not for a child - its a poacher's gun, designed to be easily folded and hidden under one's coat! They are nice little guns, relatively well made, however I've never seen one with the shotgun/rifle combination (for birds and rabbits?). This is probably because, in this country (since 1968) you can't have a rifled gun on a shotgun certificate (you need a firearms certificate), and that probably sealed its demise, as it's neither one thing or the other, legally speaking.

Julian
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Chuck Russell




Location: WV
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Reading list: 46 books

Posts: 936

PostPosted: Fri 02 Jul, 2010 5:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

i saw this gun last night in the beginning sequence of the "The Red Baron" or at least it looked liked it. very nice piece
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Rob Kelly




Location: Connecticut, USA
Joined: 19 Apr 2004
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Posts: 16

PostPosted: Fri 02 Jul, 2010 8:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Contact these guys, they may be able to help:
http://www.amoskeag-auction.com/

"Cattle die, kindred die,
Every man is mortal:
But the good name never dies
Of one who has done well."
--The Hávamál
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Luke Zechman




Location: Lock Haven Pennsylvania
Joined: 18 Jan 2009

Posts: 278

PostPosted: Fri 02 Jul, 2010 10:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I agree with Joel in that the smaller hole looks a little too big for .22. If it does turn out to be a 410 shotgun barrel, then you might also be able to fire 45 long colt out of it as well. Not that I would fire this original piece.
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Julian Reynolds




Location: United Kingdom
Joined: 30 Mar 2008

Posts: 271

PostPosted: Sat 03 Jul, 2010 12:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There is one other possibility - it's chambered for .22 and for 9mm rimfire shotgun. Which may account for the smaller size difference between the two chambers.

9mm shotguns are widely found here in Europe (mainly for poacher's weapons of opportunity such as walking stick shotguns etc.).You can still buy the ammunition.

It looks like there is a 'keyhole' indentation just above the rim recess of each chamber, which may support the theory that both chambers are for rimfire cartridges.

These guns are relatively modern (certainly early 20thC) so I doubt it's for a really obscure cartridge.

Ultimately, we need more information from the owner!

Julian
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Julian Reynolds




Location: United Kingdom
Joined: 30 Mar 2008

Posts: 271

PostPosted: Sat 03 Jul, 2010 2:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

OK, I've had another look at my Spanish one (see below), and it doesn't look as if yours is a 'folder' as the forend looks like it would get in the way. The protruding pivot must be part of the take-down mech.

Yours definately looks a better quality, older gun.

A rough-and-ready comparison of the chambers on your pic with my vernier, suggests a 9mm/6mm (ie. .22) combination, but we'll never know unless you give us more info.

Julian



 Attachment: 35.46 KB
Spanish Folder 1.JPG


 Attachment: 36.33 KB
Spanish Folder 2.JPG


 Attachment: 15.8 KB
Spanish Folder 3.JPG

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Jasna Perkovic





Joined: 01 Jul 2010

Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sat 03 Jul, 2010 4:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you all so so much for your responses, I really appreciate it!
The thing is, I know nothing about the gun, it was my grandad's. I don't even know where he got it from. The only thing I know that he was always repeating how valuable it is. I'm sorry if I'm not much of a help. Worried
But I am grateful for every information I can get. Happy
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D. Shane Burton




Location: Louisiana
Joined: 01 Jul 2010

Posts: 15

PostPosted: Sat 03 Jul, 2010 9:58 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Use a small ruler and give us the diameter of each of the bores at the breech and that may help determine the calibers or gauges. It looks double-rimfire to me.

P.S. Julian, nice gun. Happy

Shane
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B. Fulton





Joined: 28 Dec 2004

Posts: 180

PostPosted: Sun 04 Jul, 2010 12:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The older English "rook" guns, made for killing small pest animals (rabbits, small birds) etc often looked similar, but i can't remember if any were doubles.

Something like a very dressy version of what's called a snake charmer over here.
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Julian Reynolds




Location: United Kingdom
Joined: 30 Mar 2008

Posts: 271

PostPosted: Sun 04 Jul, 2010 1:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Rook rifles do tend to be single barrelled, and centerfire (most commonly .300/.320/.380 in this country).

Love the term "snake charmer"!

I find these little guns with their exposed hammers and fancy sidelevers very elegant in a 'bygone' antiquarian way. They are also very practical!

I bought mine for my late father for him to pop away at rats and rabbits on his smallholding, and when he passed away, it came back to me. He particularly liked the way it folded up, so he could walk to his land with it, without attracting too much attention from passing motorists.

Julian
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