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A Visser




Location: Amsterdam
Joined: 22 Jun 2009

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PostPosted: Thu 24 Jun, 2010 4:46 am    Post subject: about the Albion moat sale; sabered blades??         Reply with quote

Today I was having a look at the moat sale page on the Albion site. And what caught my eye was that there were a lot of blades in the $100 section which are described as 'sabered'. It may be a stupid question, but what does this mean?
Of course I know what a saber is. And I guess it could have something to do with the blade being curved or so? But instead of guessing......I'm asking. So what does it mean when Albion describes a blade as 'sabered'? And also what could be the reason for this? And....maybe more important.......what could be the consequence for a blade like that?
thnxx
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Ryan Renfro




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PostPosted: Thu 24 Jun, 2010 4:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The edge plane is warped.
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
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PostPosted: Thu 24 Jun, 2010 5:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I guess it happens during the heat treat. A number of historical blades are a little sabered and were used anyway. It doesn't affect the durability of the blade I would say. It's just not perfectly straight and symetrical.
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Thu 24 Jun, 2010 7:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It's an artifact of heat treatment, apparently. There is a famous sabered Type XVIII in the Royal Armouries-Leeds. It's shown in ROTMS and the RA has it online now as well. Oakeshott reckoned that the blade was flawed in manufacture and mounted anyway. One of these blades could be perfect for a hardcore antiquing project.


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-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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A Visser




Location: Amsterdam
Joined: 22 Jun 2009

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PostPosted: Fri 25 Jun, 2010 1:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the explanation guys. So it was as I guessed. It is only very difficult to see on those pictures provided by Albion. That's why I started to have doubts about the correctness of my guess.
Wow, Sean....that is a really nice example. I think I can understand why they would fit a blade like that anyway. It would only be a bit awkward to make a well fitting scabbard for it. There would be only one way to put your sword back in it.
I'm wondering....would it have been difficult to re-heat that blade, straighten it out, and heat treat it again hoping the blade would stay straight this time? As it's having a diamond cross section, I guess it's easier to do than when it's having a fuller.
You are right Sean....you can do things to these blades you would normally not even think about doing.
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Jonathan Blair




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PostPosted: Fri 25 Jun, 2010 4:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A Visser wrote:
I'm wondering....would it have been difficult to re-heat that blade, straighten it out, and heat treat it again hoping the blade would stay straight this time?


Why not? Considering the cost of materials in the medieval period, I could imagine that this was done frequently.

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." - The Lord Jesus Christ, from The Gospel According to Saint Matthew, chapter x, verse 34, Authorized Version of 1611
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A Visser




Location: Amsterdam
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PostPosted: Fri 25 Jun, 2010 5:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jonathan Blair wrote:
Why not? Considering the cost of materials in the medieval period, I could imagine that this was done frequently.


I guess you are right about that Jonathan. But...why didn't they do that with Sean's example? Why would they go on and mount a sabered blade?
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J. Scott Moore





Joined: 25 Nov 2008

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PostPosted: Fri 25 Jun, 2010 6:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

perhaps it was one of many, like a mass produced "batch" and they had to get so many blades out the door, and couldn't affor to straighten them... total speculation on my part though.
"Whoever desires peace, let him prepare for war."
-Vegetius
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Fri 25 Jun, 2010 6:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Maybe they just figured it was good enough. Or, maybe they put in their own "moat sale".
-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Jonathan Blair




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PostPosted: Fri 25 Jun, 2010 7:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Or maybe it was the work of an apprentice cutler that got shoved in a box somewhere and forgotten, only to be found centuries later and exhibited in a museum. Who knows?
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." - The Lord Jesus Christ, from The Gospel According to Saint Matthew, chapter x, verse 34, Authorized Version of 1611
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Luka Borscak




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PostPosted: Fri 25 Jun, 2010 7:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The thing is probably that it's really just good enough. It still cuts and thrust.
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A Visser




Location: Amsterdam
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PostPosted: Sat 26 Jun, 2010 4:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ah well...I'm probably too much a perfectionist. Like Luka said, it still performed like it should and was within acceptable parameters. So why not mount it......
I'm just too much a child of my time where everything is perfectly straight, angled or whatever shaped.
I used to be a goldsmith and so I actually know and should have remembered this. When you take a look at jewelery of older times, not everything is as perfect as it is nowadays.
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JG Elmslie
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PostPosted: Tue 29 Jun, 2010 2:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sean Flynt wrote:
There is a famous sabered Type XVIII in the Royal Armouries-Leeds.
One of these blades could be perfect for a hardcore antiquing project.


there's an arming sword with a similar sabering to it in the Kelvingrove, too...

I saw the albion sabred blades, and instantly started thinking "ooh, if I were just to make the cross parts, I'd love to make a replica of that one blade"...

one of those "when I have the spare time/sanity/ lack of self-preservation" projects to make for no other reason than plain enjoyment of making stuff.
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