Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > Could wrought iron be mimicked? Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Jeremy V. Krause




Location: Buffalo, NY.
Joined: 20 Oct 2003
Likes: 1 page
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,493

PostPosted: Fri 23 Apr, 2010 4:21 pm    Post subject: Could wrought iron be mimicked?         Reply with quote

Hello everyone,

I was wondering if there could be a way to mimic wrought iron on a homogenous steel blade to give the effect that said knife is of a more traditional construction.

I know it would be impossible to show the slight "bump" or transition between the metals.

Have any folks attempted to mimic wroUght on a piece?

Thanks,



Happy
View user's profile Send private message
Jared Smith




Location: Tennessee
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Likes: 1 page

Spotlight topics: 3
Posts: 1,532

PostPosted: Sat 24 Apr, 2010 6:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Most medieval period iron blades have some (0.1% to 0.5%) carbon. I think you have guessed the difficulty of simulating it as it varied greatly within a single piece, and had slag inclusions. What blacksmiths consider to be ideal (Victorian era) wrought iron is very low carbon, less than 0.1%. Although, period material called wrought iron may have had 0.05% to 0.25% carbon variations with slag. The best, commonly available, flat bar stock type substitute I can buy today is AISI 1018 steel (0.15% to 0.2% carbon) which is pretty consistent within a single piece. 1018 has been used and mentioned on some of the custom reproductions for guards and pommel furniture pieces. Left with some forging marks on it, the rustic appearance can be attractive.

As practice material, some pattern welders have combined low carbon simple steel alloys such as 1018, 1040, and 1060 (carbon content increasing with 10XX; XX going higher) as an easy to weld and forgiving combination for "practice" welding. The impurities are different, and etching can reveal slight color variations between different alloy layers. However, most knife and blade makers don't wish to sell such a combination since its mechanical properties are now considered substandard in terms of performance. Another somewhat similar material might be welded cable, which can have trapped slag visible within it.

I don't know if the above fully addresses your interests or not. If I wanted the mechanical traits of period wrought iron I would settle on AISI 1018. If I wanted to simulate the appearance after etching and fine polishing, I would attempt to weld up some 1018 and 1040/1060 in a somewhat random folded and twisted billet worked up into about 100 layers. Neither simulation would be particularly good as judged through a microscope with etching though.

Jared

Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence!
View user's profile Send private message
Jeremy V. Krause




Location: Buffalo, NY.
Joined: 20 Oct 2003
Likes: 1 page
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,493

PostPosted: Sat 24 Apr, 2010 4:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jared Smith wrote:
Most medieval period iron blades have some (0.1% to 0.5%) carbon. I think you have guessed the difficulty of simulating it as it varied greatly within a single piece, and had slag inclusions. What blacksmiths consider to be ideal (Victorian era) wrought iron is very low carbon, less than 0.1%. Although, period material called wrought iron may have had 0.05% to 0.25% carbon variations with slag. The best, commonly available, flat bar stock type substitute I can buy today is AISI 1018 steel (0.15% to 0.2% carbon) which is pretty consistent within a single piece. 1018 has been used and mentioned on some of the custom reproductions for guards and pommel furniture pieces. Left with some forging marks on it, the rustic appearance can be attractive.

As practice material, some pattern welders have combined low carbon simple steel alloys such as 1018, 1040, and 1060 (carbon content increasing with 10XX; XX going higher) as an easy to weld and forgiving combination for "practice" welding. The impurities are different, and etching can reveal slight color variations between different alloy layers. However, most knife and blade makers don't wish to sell such a combination since its mechanical properties are now considered substandard in terms of performance. Another somewhat similar material might be welded cable, which can have trapped slag visible within it.

I don't know if the above fully addresses your interests or not. If I wanted the mechanical traits of period wrought iron I would settle on AISI 1018. If I wanted to simulate the appearance after etching and fine polishing, I would attempt to weld up some 1018 and 1040/1060 in a somewhat random folded and twisted billet worked up into about 100 layers. Neither simulation would be particularly good as judged through a microscope with etching though.

Jared


Thanks Jared,

Reading my initial post I realize that I was totally unclear. I meant to pose the question of how one could artificially make normal steel to appear as though it were wrought iron.

Thing is, though your response, you have furthered my idea as to the futility in attempting such a task. I have a nice seax incorporating iron and looking at that I could see how difficult it would be to mimic iron using antiquing and metal finishing techniques.

I imagine that simulating the grainy structure and small clefts would be especially difficult.

I am certainly not expecting any truly convincing results- But perhaps an effect could be attained with superficial appearance.

I doubt even this is possible but I though I would put it out there.

I am chewing over this idea regarding a small knife of mine.
View user's profile Send private message
Jared Smith




Location: Tennessee
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Likes: 1 page

Spotlight topics: 3
Posts: 1,532

PostPosted: Sat 24 Apr, 2010 4:27 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeremy V. Krause wrote:

I am chewing over this idea regarding a small knife of mine.


You might just consider a blade that is hammer forged to the basic shape from a suitable steel (1075 or similar.). If it is very finely ground to geometric "perfection" afterward, not much evidence of the forging process will remain. If it is only wire brushed and roughly finished following forging, a lot of the original character from hammering could remain.

Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence!
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > Could wrought iron be mimicked?
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum