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Jeremy V. Krause




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PostPosted: Tue 13 Apr, 2010 4:02 pm    Post subject: Can I still trust my sheath?         Reply with quote

Crazy question here,

So my daughter spills apple juice and it pools around a small Tod's stuff eating knife of mine still in it's sheath. So I clean off the, now black blade with some fine sand paper and scotchbrite revealing some uneven pitting which I may try to even out.. I guess i'll call it "antiqued". . . Sad

Anyway, the juice stiffened the whole sheath and made it "gunky". Since then I have cleaned of the gunk and it seems supple again. The leather is on the thick side like all of Tod's beautiful sheaths.

So, would it be safe for me to put my oiled knife back in it with no fear or could the sugar, or acid, or whatever from the juice be problematic?

I haven't done anything to the sheath besides clean the outside with a damp paper towel and nail clipper blade. I haven't touched the inside or soaked it or anything.

The stiffness went away by just bending it back and forth a bunch of times.

Thanks for the help!
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Christopher Finneman




Location: Sartell Minnesota
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PostPosted: Tue 13 Apr, 2010 6:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I dont think it should be a problem really.
And well if it is a eating knife eventually something like this would be around or get on the blade or sheath itself.
But if you got the juice off it and cleaned all I think should be done is oil and maybe cleane a lil more.
Like I said though a knife like this is made to be used and eventually itll get dirty or what have you. Would make it look used which I like alot better than a (virgin) clean blade.

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Jeremy V. Krause




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PostPosted: Tue 13 Apr, 2010 7:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I guess I should say that I am concerned about any sugar, acid, whatever on the INSIDE of the sheath. Would keeping the oiled knife in the sheath be a concern.

I did not attempt to clean the inside of the sheath at all but I guess I could try. Maybe a Q-tip or something.

What says everyone?
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Tue 13 Apr, 2010 8:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I would be concerned if juice got inside the sheath more than just at the lip and if the apple juice was not wiped away before the juice soaked the leather deeply.

If only outside spillage I wouldn't worry about using the sheath as long as it has been well dried and waxed or oiled using something suitable for leather.

By the way I do find it interesting that apple juice darkens carbon steel to black as it should be useful for those antiquing projects some of us like. I've used yellow mustard and/or lemon juice with interesting effects.

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JE Sarge
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PostPosted: Tue 13 Apr, 2010 8:55 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'd try a gun cleaning rod and swab the inside of the scabbard with acetone on a patch to try to remove any residue. I'd do this a few times, then let it dry over night. Then, I'd swab it again the next day with boiled linseed oil. Store the weapon for a day or so after you have done this to see what happens. Happy
J.E. Sarge
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Leo Todeschini
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PostPosted: Wed 14 Apr, 2010 10:25 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What a bummer!

I guess we all know that apple juice is acidic now.

The apple juice will be a concoction of acidic salts, sugars and starches and as such acetone or other similar solvents won't really touch it, but they will effect the dye.

Water is what you would need to remove it I am afraid, but obviously this will mess up the scabbard. All I can suggest is that when the scabbard is dry it won't be an issue and it may just be OK, otherwise there may be enough ambient moisture to cause a problem.

You then have 3 choices I think.

Throw away the scabbard

Keep the knife heavily oiled

soak the scabbard in water for a couple of days, handle it very carefully and let it dry and with luck it will retain its shape. Any slight loss of shape may be pushed back into place as it gets nearly dry.

Good luck

Tod

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Jeremy V. Krause




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PostPosted: Thu 15 Apr, 2010 2:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Leo Todeschini wrote:
What a bummer!

I guess we all know that apple juice is acidic now.

The apple juice will be a concoction of acidic salts, sugars and starches and as such acetone or other similar solvents won't really touch it, but they will effect the dye.

Water is what you would need to remove it I am afraid, but obviously this will mess up the scabbard. All I can suggest is that when the scabbard is dry it won't be an issue and it may just be OK, otherwise there may be enough ambient moisture to cause a problem.

You then have 3 choices I think.

Throw away the scabbard

Keep the knife heavily oiled

soak the scabbard in water for a couple of days, handle it very carefully and let it dry and with luck it will retain its shape. Any slight loss of shape may be pushed back into place as it gets nearly dry.

Good luck

Tod


Thanks Tod,

I am looking at this as a positive in that I am getting the chance to try out some antiquing. I have some salt and vinegar solution on the blade now to try and even out the pitting. When I sanded off the black rust c#$p the pitting was kind of attractive- not too deep- I must have caught it before any real damage. So I am going to try to add a little "texture" to the blade.

I haven't really figured out "why" I would do this- I mean who back in the day would let something so important as a knife get so messed up and then use it in a distressed state- but that is another matter. . . .

I wonder what I could do, or should not do, to the handle- oxhorn and bronze to distress these? I haven't settled that I will do this but just musing.

I\Regarding the sheath. I may just run a q-tip with water in there to at least cut down on any possible damaging agents. The sheath looks and feels totally normal at this point- not stiff at all.

Any suggestions on bronze/oxhorn?

Thanks Tod for making these cool little knives I love them! For me to buy anything so far removed from my primary period of interest (900-1200 CE) must tell you something. Actually, I have to resist buying a bunch more! I really like small intricate pointy things you see! WTF?! Laughing Out Loud

Thanks everybody!

If I can figure out how to post some pics of my efforts I will!
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Leo Todeschini
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PostPosted: Thu 15 Apr, 2010 4:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
Christopher Finneman wrote Like I said though a knife like this is made to be used and eventually itll get dirty or what have you. Would make it look used which I like alot better than a (virgin) clean blade.


I am kind with you on this. My personal kit is generally far from shiny as I think people had better things to do on the whole; as long as it is just pitting/staining rather than rust then I see nothing historically wrong with it. That does not however account for personal preferance and if you want shiny then it still remains a complete bummer.

Thanks for the complements Jeremy.

Usually if I want to oxidise brass or bronze I heat it, but this is not an option in this case so I guess try a little vinegar.

For the horn I would start carefully and try rubbing it in your hand with some grit or sand, but I would deal with the blade first and get happy with that before starting on the handle.

Tod

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Jeremy V. Krause




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PostPosted: Sat 17 Apr, 2010 10:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Leo Todeschini wrote:
Quote:
Christopher Finneman wrote Like I said though a knife like this is made to be used and eventually itll get dirty or what have you. Would make it look used which I like alot better than a (virgin) clean blade.


I am kind with you on this. My personal kit is generally far from shiny as I think people had better things to do on the whole; as long as it is just pitting/staining rather than rust then I see nothing historically wrong with it. That does not however account for personal preferance and if you want shiny then it still remains a complete bummer.

Thanks for the complements Jeremy.

Usually if I want to oxidise brass or bronze I heat it, but this is not an option in this case so I guess try a little vinegar.

For the horn I would start carefully and try rubbing it in your hand with some grit or sand, but I would deal with the blade first and get happy with that before starting on the handle.

Tod


Thanks Tod,

This gives me some perspective to the possible role of lesser maintained pieces "in period".

I have began antiquing a 12th c. Del tin to give it an aged or even excavated appearance. I sort of see this as a craft type endeavor- just to improve it's appearance for display. One thing about these Del tin though, I had mine not even oiled for like 2 years and it hardly developed any spots at all! I hear there is some vanadium in his steel that can make them more corrosion resistant. It is certainly different than any of my other pieces.

I am noticing an interesting thing with the developing corrosion on my eating knife. There is a section along the edge that isn't receiving the vinegar solution in the same way and when I use the steel wool to remove the rust/blackness this section is more "shiny" and isn't pitting to the same degree as the rest of the blade.

So here's my theory. This "section" I am referring to is the same section which was particularly affected by the initial soaking in apple juice that started this whole affair so I probably sanded and steel-wooled this area more than the rest of the knife as at that time I was trying to return the knife to a pit free state- now I know that is nearly impossible with merely sanding and the use of steel wool. Perhaps in my vigor, somehow, I changed the surface in some way.

Hmmmm. . . . .
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Jeremy V. Krause




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PostPosted: Mon 19 Apr, 2010 11:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Update on my eating knife,

After 2 days of vinegar and salt solution it looks great. The pitting is pretty even and the bronze has a warmer tone. I kept it in the sheath over night with no seeming effects so, everything considered, I consider my endeavor a success. Happy
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