Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > Albion Liechtenauer Reply to topic
This is a standard topic Go to page 1, 2  Next 
Author Message
Ben Clayton




Location: Texas
Joined: 18 Aug 2009

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sat 10 Apr, 2010 9:02 pm    Post subject: Albion Liechtenauer         Reply with quote

Hello All! I was thinking of buying Albion's Liechtenauer sword for theatrical reenactment. Does anyone own this sword that can give me some details of the handling characteristics? The major concern for me is if its too "whippy" when fighting with it. My instructor has the I:33 and it flexes quite a bit when doing medieval fighting.



Thanks,
Ben
View user's profile Send private message
JE Sarge
Industry Professional



PostPosted: Sat 10 Apr, 2010 9:27 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'd not call it whippy at all. It's considerably stiffer than the Hanwei Practicals and the Tinker blunts. It's not quite as stiff as the ATrim / Valiant I-Beams or A&A Zohgo di Spada, but it's defiantely not whippy. The Albion handles very well in my opinion, the overall durability is good, and edges proven to be quite durable - though the one I have used has developed a bit of rattle in the cross over the last couple years.

The only downside for some people is the $500 price tag, which some would consider to be a sizable investment in a training blunt; especially if you do alot of hard steel on steel sparring with it.

J.E. Sarge
Crusader Monk Sword Scabbards and Customizations
www.crusadermonk.com

"But lack of documentation, especially for such early times, is not to be considered as evidence of non-existance." - Ewart Oakeshott
View user's profile Send private message
Ben Clayton




Location: Texas
Joined: 18 Aug 2009

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sat 10 Apr, 2010 9:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply. I do not have trouble with price as I practice weekly and have productions several times a year. Also, with the life time warranty for loosening parts and manufacturer flaws, this is a very good deal of fine craftsmanship. Thanks. Anyone else have anything to add?

JE Sarge wrote:
I'd not call it whippy at all. It's considerably stiffer than the Hanwei Practicals and the Tinker blunts. It's not quite as stiff as the ATrim / Valiant I-Beams or A&A Zohgo di Spada, but it's defiantely not whippy. The Albion handles very well in my opinion, the overall durability is good, and edges proven to be quite durable - though the one I have used has developed a bit of rattle in the cross over the last couple years.

The only downside for some people is the $500 price tag, which some would consider to be a sizable investment in a training blunt; especially if you do alot of hard steel on steel sparring with it.
View user's profile Send private message
David Teague




Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Joined: 25 Jan 2004

Posts: 409

PostPosted: Sat 10 Apr, 2010 11:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello Ben,

We love ours.

My group has 7 in use. We have no problem with "whippiness" with ours as "whippiness" is a bad thing to a German longsword group.

Our style uses a lot of blade on blade action called winding/ winden that just sucks on a whippy blade. WTF?!

My personal Albion Liechtenauer is not quite 3 years old and I've done a lot of drills, demos and a small bit of free play in that time and it's still going strong...

except for a very slight "hint" of hilt rattle.

The first Liechtenauer in my group is over 3 years old, has no hilt rattle, handles well, and still looks good.

Cheers,

David

This you shall know, that all things have length and measure.

Free Scholar/ Instructor Selohaar Fechtschule
The Historic Recrudescence Guild

"Yea though I walk through the valley of death, I will fear no evil: for Thou's sword art is with me; Thy poleaxe and Thy quarterstaff they comfort me."
View user's profile Send private message
Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Likes: 50 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 5
Posts: 8,178

PostPosted: Sat 10 Apr, 2010 11:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A second or third what the others said, mine his holding up perfectly, no rattle or looseness in guard or pommel and in spite of taking some hard hits over at least 3 or 4 years it take a 8X loupe to see the very light dimpling on the " edges ".

A little sanding maintenance and it looks almost new except for some light scratches on the finish.

Not whippy at all but a little lateral flex is for me an advantage in the bind as one can use it to advantage when compared to the rigidity of the blade when using the edge: I just think that one can use this flexibility to control the nature of the bind and in using fuhlen sensitivity to a hard or soft bind.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
View user's profile Send private message
Ben Clayton




Location: Texas
Joined: 18 Aug 2009

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sun 11 Apr, 2010 10:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Excellent! My only concern was that with what I do, I do manly sweeping parrys with counters. I just didn't want to much wobble in the blade as moves to and fro.
View user's profile Send private message
Roger Hooper




Location: Northern California
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Likes: 1 page

Spotlight topics: 4
Posts: 3,958

PostPosted: Sun 11 Apr, 2010 12:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Forgive my going a little off-topic, but does anyone have anything to say about the other Maestro longsword, the Grete sword, Epee de Guerre? It has been in production for awhile, but not much has been written about it.
View user's profile Send private message
David Teague




Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Joined: 25 Jan 2004

Posts: 409

PostPosted: Sun 11 Apr, 2010 1:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Roger Hooper wrote:
Forgive my going a little off-topic, but does anyone have anything to say about the other Maestro longsword, the Grete sword, Epee de Guerre? It has been in production for awhile, but not much has been written about it.


Hi Roger,

I have yet to see one at an event or in the hands of a student. While I do live in Alaska, I try to get out to events 2 or 3 times each year to learn more of my art, meet people and handle new cool swag.

I don't remember seeing any at the Albion table at WMAW 09, I just remember seeing the I.33, Meyer, Liechtenauer and the messer prototype.

Most of the people I know favor the scent stopper pommel over the disk pommel so that might be a major reason the Epee de Guerre isn't that common at events. I for one like both styles, but the Epee de Guerre was not in production when I bought my current trainer.

All the people I know agonize over whether or not they should get the Meyer vs Liechtenauer (or an similar offering from Arms & Armour).

Cheers,

David

This you shall know, that all things have length and measure.

Free Scholar/ Instructor Selohaar Fechtschule
The Historic Recrudescence Guild

"Yea though I walk through the valley of death, I will fear no evil: for Thou's sword art is with me; Thy poleaxe and Thy quarterstaff they comfort me."
View user's profile Send private message
Roger Hooper




Location: Northern California
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Likes: 1 page

Spotlight topics: 4
Posts: 3,958

PostPosted: Sun 11 Apr, 2010 4:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The Epee De Guerre has been in production for about a year.

Maybe the WMAC isn't that interested in sparring with Grete Swords.

I had originally signed up for this sword when it was in pre-production, but got tired of waiting for it to be released and substituted a Maestro I:33 for it - nice sword, by the way.
View user's profile Send private message
David Teague




Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Joined: 25 Jan 2004

Posts: 409

PostPosted: Sun 11 Apr, 2010 4:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Roger Hooper wrote:
The Epee De Guerre has been in production for about a year.

Maybe the WMAC isn't that interested in sparring with Grete Swords.

I had originally signed up for this sword when it was in pre-production, but got tired of waiting for it to be released and substituted a Maestro I:33 for it - nice sword, by the way.


Hi Roger,

Well, there seems to be an interest in the true 2 handed great swords of the 15th & 16th century.

Arms & Armour had a "slew" of their new 2 handed great sword trainers there for Tom Leoni's Marozzo's Spadone class and Steve Hicks and Eric Myers' Iberian Montante class.

Scary weapons. Cool

Big Grin

Cheers,

DT

This you shall know, that all things have length and measure.

Free Scholar/ Instructor Selohaar Fechtschule
The Historic Recrudescence Guild

"Yea though I walk through the valley of death, I will fear no evil: for Thou's sword art is with me; Thy poleaxe and Thy quarterstaff they comfort me."
View user's profile Send private message
Bill Grandy
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Alexandria, VA USA
Joined: 25 Aug 2003
Reading list: 43 books

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 4,148

PostPosted: Sun 11 Apr, 2010 8:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

David Teague wrote:
I don't remember seeing any at the Albion table at WMAW 09,.


Then you were probably too busy drooling over the messer prototype. :-p They had them there.

I think it handles very well for that type of sword, and I'd love to own a sharp version. For WMA usage, though, its not really going to be a popular one, considering that it isn't really the type of sword that fits into the primary corpus of what people tend to study. Also, due to the forward weight, it isn't as easy to control during free play as the other longswords are.

I think its a great product, but I also think its catering to a very specific market that's already within a niche target audience to begin with. I know the sword isn't really for me or my students.

Virginia Academy of Fencing Historical Swordsmanship
--German Longsword & Italian Rapier in the DC Area--


"A despondent heart will always be defeated regardless of skill."
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
David Teague




Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Joined: 25 Jan 2004

Posts: 409

PostPosted: Sun 11 Apr, 2010 8:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bill Grandy wrote:
David Teague wrote:
I don't remember seeing any at the Albion table at WMAW 09,.


Then you were probably too busy drooling over the messer prototype. :-p They had them there..


Or just hobbling about in pain. Worried

I really didn't "see" them . Surprised

Totally off topic @ Bill. I just ordered in some black linen mid weight canvas and a set of historic buckles today for that project I'm working on for you & Christian. Cool I had some natural linen and smaller buckles in my supplies, but decided to match your fighting coats with the padded shells.

Cheers,

DT

This you shall know, that all things have length and measure.

Free Scholar/ Instructor Selohaar Fechtschule
The Historic Recrudescence Guild

"Yea though I walk through the valley of death, I will fear no evil: for Thou's sword art is with me; Thy poleaxe and Thy quarterstaff they comfort me."
View user's profile Send private message
Greg Mele
Industry Professional



Location: Chicago, IL USA
Joined: 20 Mar 2006

Posts: 356

PostPosted: Sun 11 Apr, 2010 9:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Roger Hooper wrote:
Forgive my going a little off-topic, but does anyone have anything to say about the other Maestro longsword, the Grete sword, Epee de Guerre? It has been in production for awhile, but not much has been written about it.


One of my students has one and it is a lovely piece. A lot of blade presence, but surprisingly pleasing when used one-handed.

Greg Mele
Chicago Swordplay Guild
www.chicagoswordplayguild.com

www.freelanceacademypress.com
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Edward Hitchens




Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Likes: 1 page
Reading list: 9 books

Posts: 818

PostPosted: Mon 12 Apr, 2010 3:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I got to play with an Albion Liechtenauer at the Ashville Viking Festival in Ohio a year or so ago. I was very impressed with it! Dry handing was excellent, I thought. I remember it had a rather "fat" grip that took a little while to get used to (I'm used to a more narrow oval grip), but I figured that's typical with a practice model. I loved it. I think it would suit you very well for theatrical reenactment.
"The whole art of government consists in the art of being honest." Thomas Jefferson
View user's profile Send private message
Maurizio D'Angelo




Location: Italy
Joined: 09 Feb 2009
Likes: 3 pages
Reading list: 3 books

Posts: 649

PostPosted: Mon 12 Apr, 2010 5:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
A second or third what the others said, mine his holding up perfectly, no rattle or looseness in guard or pommel and in spite of taking some hard hits over at least 3 or 4 years it take a 8X loupe to see the very light dimpling on the " edges ".

A little sanding maintenance and it looks almost new except for some light scratches on the finish.


Someone tells me if my speech is correct?
example:
sword 1) edge thickness 1 mm, stainless great
sword 2) edge thickness 2.5 mm, stainless poor
At equal strength = 50 Joules, suppose equal hardness.

Here is a simplified formula to determine relative pressure on:
Relative pressure = Force / Area ( impact area )
Pressure sword 1) = 50 Joule / 1 = 50
Pressure sword 2) = 50 Joule / 2.5 = 20

we understand that the blade edge with a 1 mm, shall withstand a pressure more than double
He also understands that the blade with the edge of 2.5 mm. (Built with steel poor) could create damage to the sword better, since suffering a lower relative pressure.
How do you say that a sword is better than another?
Would be correct to compare swords with equal thickness of the edges?
What is the thickness of the edge of a Liechtenauer?
Which one of the opposing sword?
This is just to understand if my thinking is correct.

Ciao
Maurizio
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Allen Foster





Joined: 17 Feb 2008
Reading list: 4 books

Posts: 244

PostPosted: Mon 12 Apr, 2010 5:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I own both the Albion Meyer and Liechtenauer . I mostly use the Meyer for sparring because my partner uses a Meyer and I tend to over power him in the bind with the heavier (by six ounces) Liechtenauer . Although when I am sparring someone I am unfamiliar with, I like the advantage that gives. After drilling extensively with both swords, the Liechtenauer has become my favorite of the two for several reasons:

1) It is DURABLE beyond all the hype and beyond my expectations. After a year of steel sparring, I feel like the sword can just blow through any comparable competitive product and not damage it. This is my personal opinion after seeing how my Liechtenauer has chewed through and damaged many lessor swords time and time again. It is just as functional and tight today as it was the day I took it out of the box.

2) It is SAFER because the tip is more rounded than comparable swords I have seen. I have gotten to where I don't want to spar against people with other brands because the tips on those swords are much pointier than my own and I just don't feel safe. I also believe it is safer because the edges are much thicker than most other blunts I have seen (except for the I beam). The thicker edge tends to spread out the force of the strike a little more than most blades reducing the chance of injury in my opinion.

3) It is FUNCTIONAL. Not only is it well balanced, but it's also a very good weight for me (not too heavy and not too light). The cross is also a good size also. Some crosses (like on the Meyer) are so big that you have to be careful because you can hit yourself in the head with them. After starting out with disc pommels I have found the round pommels on both Albions are a lot easier on my hands and more conducive to the techniques I practice.

In short the sword sings like a tuning fork when it strikes another sword. It just wants to fight!

Disclaimer: I am not compensated in any way by Albion for raving about their products (although I wouldn't turn them down if they offered Happy ).

"Rise up, O Lord, and may thy enemies be dispersed and those who hate thee be driven from thy face."
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Dan Sellars





Joined: 10 Jun 2008

Posts: 23

PostPosted: Tue 13 Apr, 2010 8:12 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Allen Foster wrote:
... This is my personal opinion after seeing how my Liechtenauer has chewed through and damaged many lessor swords time and time again. It is just as functional and tight today as it was the day I took it out of the box.
...


That is what concerns me about it, I don't want to turn my friends swords into saws. Other wise I t would be very very interested in getting one.
View user's profile Send private message
Ed Toton




Location: Northern VA
Joined: 16 Sep 2005

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 462

PostPosted: Tue 13 Apr, 2010 8:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

After having been hit by both the Albion Liechtenauer, and the Albion Meyer, my feeling is that the Meyer is safer for full-on fencing due to the thicker edges and lighter weight, but the Liechtenauer looks more like a sharp and thus is a better choice for stage or demos. And either works well for drills.
-Ed T. Toton III
ed.toton.org | ModernChivalry.org
My armor photos on facebook
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Likes: 50 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 5
Posts: 8,178

PostPosted: Tue 13 Apr, 2010 8:41 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dan Sellars wrote:
Allen Foster wrote:
... This is my personal opinion after seeing how my Liechtenauer has chewed through and damaged many lessor swords time and time again. It is just as functional and tight today as it was the day I took it out of the box.
...


That is what concerns me about it, I don't want to turn my friends swords into saws. Other wise I t would be very very interested in getting one.


Well things are " relative ": A friend's Hanwey/Tinker has taken some minor damage versus the Albion but it isn't deep damage and far from being turned into a saw but it does show slightly deeper " dings " that are easily rounded out by a little light filing or sanding. Oh, my friend's training sword is used against my Albion and some cheaper swords like Windlass swords that are much softer.

Even the Windlass swords remain useable, some after years of abuse they do have some deep notches or scalloped out chunks in the edges: They are still safe if maintained but they do look beat up. ( These Windlass swords use by my group are just the original unsharpened Windlass edges on their regular swords and not specifically designed for training swords ).

So in my opinion the cheaper swords will notch just as much when used against each other than when used against the high end Albions but one's Albion won't show much evidence of use against the cheap swords.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
View user's profile Send private message
Dan Sellars





Joined: 10 Jun 2008

Posts: 23

PostPosted: Tue 13 Apr, 2010 8:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Dan Sellars wrote:
Allen Foster wrote:
... This is my personal opinion after seeing how my Liechtenauer has chewed through and damaged many lessor swords time and time again. It is just as functional and tight today as it was the day I took it out of the box.
...


That is what concerns me about it, I don't want to turn my friends swords into saws. Other wise I t would be very very interested in getting one.


Well things are " relative ": A friend's Hanwey/Tinker has taken some minor damage versus the Albion but it isn't deep damage and far from being turned into a saw but it does show slightly deeper " dings " that are easily rounded out by a little light filing or sanding. Oh, my friend's training sword is used against my Albion and some cheaper swords like Windlass swords that are much softer.

Even the Windlass swords remain useable, some after years of abuse they do have some deep notches or scalloped out chunks in the edges: They are still safe if maintained but they do look beat up. ( These Windlass swords use by my group are just the original unsharpened Windlass edges on their regular swords and not specifically designed for training swords ).

So in my opinion the cheaper swords will notch just as much when used against each other than when used against the high end Albions but one's Albion won't show much evidence of use against the cheap swords.


Cheers, do you have any heimricks (what we use) in your group?
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > Albion Liechtenauer
Page 1 of 2 Reply to topic
Go to page 1, 2  Next All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum