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Jess Rozek




Location: Burlington, VT
Joined: 23 Mar 2010

Posts: 30

PostPosted: Tue 23 Mar, 2010 1:46 pm    Post subject: Identification of a saif/nimcha. Picture rich!         Reply with quote

Hi everyone,

I have this sword that is supposedly a saif from Zanzibar. According to a book I have (The Book of the Sword), Zanzibari swords were typically European looking. Based on the folded down third quillon, I think its a nimcha. Do any of you have any other information on nimchas and saifs? If you guys could pin a date in this sword, it would be greatly appreciated! Also, there's a neat little crescent moon with seven stars above it on the blade. Does anyone know what that could mean?

Thanks for all the help!

Close ups:





Full sword and scabbard:

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Jess Rozek




Location: Burlington, VT
Joined: 23 Mar 2010

Posts: 30

PostPosted: Wed 24 Mar, 2010 6:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Does no one have any information on this type of sword? Worried
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team


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PostPosted: Wed 24 Mar, 2010 8:38 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jess Rozek wrote:
Does no one have any information on this type of sword? Worried


Sometimes responses take longer than you've allowed. Please be patient.

Happy

ChadA

http://chadarnow.com/
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Terry Crain




Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Likes: 2 pages

Posts: 224

PostPosted: Wed 24 Mar, 2010 8:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Jess,

I am no expert by any means, but from what I have gleaned over the years, I would say this is exactly what you stated it had been represented as, namely a saif in the style produced in Zanzibar. The blade looks to me to be European hilted in the Zanibar fashion. I understood that many European blades were acquired/obtained by trade, picked up off the battlefield, etc. and found their way to the arms manucfacturing centers of the middle east & north Africa. I would guess here a cavalry sword blade repurposed. Consistent with other examples I have seen (in pictures, not in person, it has a rounded point seen on many arab saifs. I believe "saif" is merely the arab word for sword ,but again, I could be wrong, as I am not a linguist. Over the years I have seen arab swords referred to as "saifs" and usually they have rounded points, indicating they were primarily slashing cutters-again usually appearing to me to be meant for use from horseback (or perhaps camel back).

I can see why you think it could be a nimcha, as the hilts are similar; but not the same. I have an authentic nimcha and have handled one other. I believe it was owned by Therion of Therion Arms actually. The swords I understand as being Morracan nimchas are very similar to to this, but while it has the extra upturned quillon, it does not have the side ring like yours, which I thought appeared on the Zanibar saifs.

I think yours is a beautiful piece btw.

The age is hard to say. I would hazzard a guess at anywhere from late 18th to very early 20th. If I had to guess, I would say mid 19th C. The style and wear of the armour's marks makes me think it is earlier rather than later in my estimated range. The surviving scabbard detail is very nice as well. The patterned leather work and remaining chape and ring fittings appear in style and material to be consistant with my estimated age range, at least to my admittedly untrained eye. It looks to me like a suspension ring is now missing. The original two ring suspension to me again suggest a cavalry weapon, but maybe that was the norm for suspending this sword on foot as well, I really don't know. ...

All in all a very nice looking authentic antique. Any provance provided by who or wherever you acquired it from beyond what you stated? How long is the blade btw? How did you acquire it btw? Antique dealer, auction house, flea market? Just curious.

Finally, I know there are much more knowledgable folks than me on eastern arms, hopefully they will chime in. I often find a lot of examples of eastern arms on the cite of oriental arms several Moraccan nimchas are shown in its photo galleries
and one is for sale right now. See:

http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=3924

My nimcha is very similar to those true Morroccan nimchas depicted on that site.

Thanks for sharing this very nice sword.

Best regards,

Terry

Terry Crain
A/K/A
Donal Grant

Honor, not Honors!
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Terry Crain




Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Likes: 2 pages

Posts: 224

PostPosted: Wed 24 Mar, 2010 8:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jess-- here are some great pictures of a early 19th C Morraccan nimcha sword for sale on e-bay from a reputable seller:

http://cgi.ebay.com/NICE-NORTH-AFRICAN-NIMCHA...2c53ba705f

Terry Crain
A/K/A
Donal Grant

Honor, not Honors!
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Maurizio D'Angelo




Location: Italy
Joined: 09 Feb 2009
Likes: 3 pages
Reading list: 3 books

Posts: 649

PostPosted: Fri 26 Mar, 2010 3:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Terry Crain wrote:
Hi Jess,
Finally, I know there are much more knowledgable folks than me on eastern arms, hopefully they will chime in. I often find a lot of examples of eastern arms on the cite of oriental arms several Moraccan nimchas are shown in its photo galleries
and one is for sale right now. See:
http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=3924
Terry

by the article:
ANDREA FERARA the famous 16 C. Italian sword maker.
a very common mistake, Andrea Ferara was Spanish, no Italian.


Jess Rozek wrote:

Hi everyone,

I have this sword that is supposedly a saif from Zanzibar. According to a book I have (The Book of the Sword), Zanzibari swords were typically European looking. Based on the folded down third quillon, I think its a nimcha. Do any of you have any other information on nimchas and saifs? If you guys could pin a date in this sword, it would be greatly appreciated! Also, there's a neat little crescent moon with seven stars above it on the blade. Does anyone know what that could mean?

Thanks for all the help!


Might be a German mark.
The family of swords' makers is Schimmelbusch. A moon and seven stars. (Shotting Star).
The first family, with this brand 1777-1802 (Carl) founder of the brand.
the last Franz und Carl, 1857-1891

The seven stars are arranged in a circle.
But can be changed in two centuries, or the geometry of the sword favored a horizontal arrangement of the mark.
It is only my hypothesis.

German Swords and Sword Makers - Richard H. Bezdek - pag. 152



 Attachment: 168.95 KB
270320103621.jpg


Ciao
Maurizio
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Jess Rozek




Location: Burlington, VT
Joined: 23 Mar 2010

Posts: 30

PostPosted: Mon 29 Mar, 2010 7:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Terry Crain wrote:

All in all a very nice looking authentic antique. Any provance provided by who or wherever you acquired it from beyond what you stated? How long is the blade btw? How did you acquire it btw? Antique dealer, auction house, flea market? Just curious.


I picked it up at an estate sale actually. The guy was an antiques collector. And alas no, I have no more information than its a saif from Zanzibar. The blade is 80 cm long and the entire sword is 94 cm long.
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Maurizio D'Angelo




Location: Italy
Joined: 09 Feb 2009
Likes: 3 pages
Reading list: 3 books

Posts: 649

PostPosted: Mon 29 Mar, 2010 2:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Maurizio D'Angelo wrote:
Terry Crain wrote:
Hi Jess,
Finally, I know there are much more knowledgable folks than me on eastern arms, hopefully they will chime in. I often find a lot of examples of eastern arms on the cite of oriental arms several Moraccan nimchas are shown in its photo galleries
and one is for sale right now. See:
http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=3924
Terry

by the article:
ANDREA FERARA the famous 16 C. Italian sword maker.
a very common mistake, Andrea Ferara was Spanish, no Italian.


I want add
Two swords maker with little difference:

ANDREA FERARA 16 C. Spanish
ANDREA DA FERRARA 16 C. Italian
This is the reason for the confusion.

Ciao
Maurizio
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