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Martin Erben




Location: Germany, Düsseldorf
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Mon 08 Mar, 2010 9:34 am    Post subject: What kind of dagger is this?         Reply with quote

Hello

A few minutes ago, I found a picture of Jörg von Frundsberg (a very important Landsknecht leader in german history) and his son from his biography from 1572, and I recognized, that his dagger was strange....
I can't imagine, how the pommel would look in 3D and I'm also confused about the quillon/rondel. Is it maybe a form of katzbalger/short-sword? Does anyone have pictures of originals with similar grip configuration? What would the blade look like?
Her's a link to the picture: http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dat...0804074422

Thank you in advance
Martin Ruben Erben
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Mon 08 Mar, 2010 10:16 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If you're referring to the item hanging from the belt of the left figure, I doubt it's a dagger. It looks like a sword with a waisted grip to me, but its hard to say because the image is so poor. I suppose it could also be something like a rondel, but the disk pommel does not belong on it, which is what leads me to think it's a sword being represented.
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Mon 08 Mar, 2010 10:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Craig Peters wrote:
If you're referring to the item hanging from the belt of the left figure, I doubt it's a dagger. It looks like a sword with a waisted grip to me, but its hard to say because the image is so poor. I suppose it could also be something like a rondel, but the disk pommel does not belong on it, which is what leads me to think it's a sword being represented.


Keep in mind that in some eras, rondel daggers may have a pommel or wheel or fishtail or other form.

That said, I doubt we're looking at a dagger here, too.

Happy

ChadA

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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Mon 08 Mar, 2010 10:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It's just a stylized/exaggerated German longsword grip of the first quarter of the 16th c. The pommel is the typical thick wheel form with recessed face (see the Bayerisches XVIIIb, plus tons more in Dürer's work). Waisted grip (impractically exaggerated here). Looks like there's also a small tassle beneath the pommel, something common in the day but, like chappes, almost never seen in modern work.


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-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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