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Jeremy V. Krause




Location: Buffalo, NY.
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PostPosted: Fri 23 Jul, 2004 11:42 am    Post subject: edge sharpness         Reply with quote

This is a question for the folks at Albion, (boy a lot of questions on this forum seem to begin that way)
This relates to edge sharpness. I own a Norman, which I am very pleased with, and have had the opportunity to handle a Baron, which is also a wonderful sword. I noticed that the edge of my Norman is noticably sharper than that of the Baron. Is this on purpose? I mean I understand that a sword like the Norman historically would have seen action against more lightly armoured targets, at least on average, than the Baron, that may have met the abvent of plate. A sword meeting more heavily armoured opponents would seem to need a more robust edge.
So is the Norman sharper because it is supposed to be or because of the natural differences in the hand-crafted product.
Thanks for the information, Jeremy
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Eric McHugh
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Location: Crown Point, IN
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PostPosted: Fri 23 Jul, 2004 1:22 pm    Post subject: Re: edge sharpness         Reply with quote

Jeremy V. Krause wrote:
This is a question for the folks at Albion, (boy a lot of questions on this forum seem to begin that way)
This relates to edge sharpness. I own a Norman, which I am very pleased with, and have had the opportunity to handle a Baron, which is also a wonderful sword. I noticed that the edge of my Norman is noticably sharper than that of the Baron. Is this on purpose? I mean I understand that a sword like the Norman historically would have seen action against more lightly armoured targets, at least on average, than the Baron, that may have met the abvent of plate. A sword meeting more heavily armoured opponents would seem to need a more robust edge.
So is the Norman sharper because it is supposed to be or because of the natural differences in the hand-crafted product.
Thanks for the information, Jeremy


Hi Jeremy,

Sometimes sharpness becomes an apples and oranges thing too. In this case, you have a single-hand sword with a thinner blade geometry and a large warsword with a thicker geometry. This is going to effect the perceived sharpness of a sword. Thinner cross-sections will often feel "sharper." In addition, a sword that is going to have a more supportive edge (like in a warsword) will have a different feel than a thinner sword that doesn't require so much support as a warsword. To use hyperbole to emphasis my point: it is like the difference in feel between a Solingen kitchen knife and an axe. Both can be made razor sharp, but the kitchen knife will "feel" sharper.

All of our swords feature a transitioned edge that was seen on originals. This provides a well supported edge that is also keen. Moreover, the transitioned edge makes for a better cutting sword. Back in the day, most production and custom swords had a secondary bevel, but with the advent of many modern makers and smiths, edges have become more historically accurate, and customers are finding that their swords cut better too.

But in truth, sharpness is difficult to gauge by touch. The Baron is one of those swords that does not feel super sharp to me, but it is also the only sword to cut me. Back several months ago I was handling a Baron and it didn't feel that sharp. I moved it the wrong way a mere inch and cut a large gash in my hand...ouch! That is the first real injury I have received from a sword and it was the Baron. So, touch is not the best way to gauge sharpness. I suggest using a piece of leather or better yet, get a grass mat and cut away, but also realize that some swords are more sensitive to technique than others. The Baron may require tighter technique than a single-hand sword like the Norman. This doesn't make it good or bad...just different.

Hope this helps.

Find me on Facebook, or check out my blog. Contact me at eric@crownforge.net or ericmycue374@comcast.net if you want to talk about a commission or discuss an available piece.
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Jeremy V. Krause




Location: Buffalo, NY.
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PostPosted: Fri 23 Jul, 2004 2:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Eric, thank you so much for the reply,
This is quite informative. And yet the sense of touch is quite sensitive. It really seems to me that I perceived a difference in the edge between the two. I wonder what others have percieved who have handled many Albion swords. Again this is no statement re: Albion craftsmanship, wich is excellent, I'm just wondering is there some heterogeneity in the edge sharpness, all within historical parameters. What do folks think about the role of blade geometry and the effect on the perceived edge. Agian thanks, Jeremy
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J.G. Grubbs




Location: Birmingham, Alabama
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PostPosted: Fri 23 Jul, 2004 3:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeremy V. Krause wrote:
Eric, thank you so much for the reply,
This is quite informative. And yet the sense of touch is quite sensitive. It really seems to me that I perceived a difference in the edge between the two. I wonder what others have percieved who have handled many Albion swords. Again this is no statement re: Albion craftsmanship, wich is excellent, I'm just wondering is there some heterogeneity in the edge sharpness, all within historical parameters. What do folks think about the role of blade geometry and the effect on the perceived edge. Agian thanks, Jeremy


I have recently had an experience similar to Eric's. My Warder "feels" less sharp than any of my other swords. The sword has an "appleseed" bevel and what I would describe as significant "niku" for cutting heavier materials. I was cleaning it about 11/2 weeks ago and lost focus for just a flash....and although my finger touched the blade for just a split-second it cut me to the bone. I don't recall really "feeling" the cut per se, just a moment of pressure. A graphic lesson in how deceiving the perception of "sharpness" can be.


Regards,

"The reputation of a thousand years may be determined by the conduct of one hour."
Samurai Proverb




James Grubbs
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Eric McHugh
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Location: Crown Point, IN
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PostPosted: Fri 23 Jul, 2004 3:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeremy V. Krause wrote:
It really seems to me that I perceived a difference in the edge between the two. I wonder what others have percieved who have handled many Albion swords.


Hi Jeremy,

Perhaps I came across a bit pedantic with my lengthy answer, so allow me to post a more direct answer: yes, you are perceiving a difference in the edge because there is a difference in the geometry of the blade.

Find me on Facebook, or check out my blog. Contact me at eric@crownforge.net or ericmycue374@comcast.net if you want to talk about a commission or discuss an available piece.
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Jeremy V. Krause




Location: Buffalo, NY.
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Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 1
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PostPosted: Fri 23 Jul, 2004 4:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Eric,
And so you really produce the same degree of, "keeness" in the swords you produce, both across sword types (X, Xa, XI, XII) and within the same model, (all Normans, Knights etc.) that you mail out will have the same edge? I guess this is the essence of the question- does the hand-crafted nature of the swords result in a heterogenous edge within the sword model in question. Does this make sense? Thanks, Jeremy
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Eric McHugh
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Location: Crown Point, IN
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PostPosted: Fri 23 Jul, 2004 4:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeremy V. Krause wrote:
Eric,
And so you really produce the same degree of, "keeness" in the swords you produce, both across sword types (X, Xa, XI, XII) and within the same model, (all Normans, Knights etc.) that you mail out will have the same edge? I guess this is the essence of the question- does the hand-crafted nature of the swords result in a heterogenous edge within the sword model in question. Does this make sense? Thanks, Jeremy


Hi Jeremy,

Well, because of the hand-crafted nature of what we do, there is always some variation in things. This is the nature of hand-made things. We have a standard that we strive for when we make an individual sword. The degree to which we achieve that standard is different with each sword. This is the human factor. But each sword must meet or exceed that standard. That doesn't mean we are perfect, but when we aren't we fix it. To answer your question: as far as it is humanly possible, we strive to make each sword homogenous with other swords of its type. With that said, there is alway some variation because of human imperfection. Happy

Find me on Facebook, or check out my blog. Contact me at eric@crownforge.net or ericmycue374@comcast.net if you want to talk about a commission or discuss an available piece.
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Jeremy V. Krause




Location: Buffalo, NY.
Joined: 20 Oct 2003
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Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 1
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PostPosted: Fri 23 Jul, 2004 5:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Eric,
This discussion has been very helpful for me and I thank you for your attention. I have the highest respect of what you and other Albion staff are doing with the Next Gen line. If any assurance is needed of my confidence it should be noted that I am beginning to save for a sword that has not even been formally presented by Albion- namely the St. Maurice sword. I am very pleased with what I have seen on your site and with what I have handled in person. And so I commit my HARD earned cash for Albion pieces- so please keep it up! Thanks, Jeremy
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Eric McHugh
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Location: Crown Point, IN
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PostPosted: Fri 23 Jul, 2004 5:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeremy V. Krause wrote:
Eric,
This discussion has been very helpful for me and I thank you for your attention. I have the highest respect of what you and other Albion staff are doing with the Next Gen line. If any assurance is needed of my confidence it should be noted that I am beginning to save for a sword that has not even been formally presented by Albion- namely the St. Maurice sword. I am very pleased with what I have seen on your site and with what I have handled in person. And so I commit my HARD earned cash for Albion pieces- so please keep it up! Thanks, Jeremy


Hi Jeremy,

No problem...glad I could help. Happy We appreciate the kind words.

Find me on Facebook, or check out my blog. Contact me at eric@crownforge.net or ericmycue374@comcast.net if you want to talk about a commission or discuss an available piece.
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