Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Scottish whinger? Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Jack W. Englund




Location: WA State
Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Reading list: 6 books

Posts: 186

PostPosted: Thu 18 Feb, 2010 3:54 pm    Post subject: Scottish whinger?         Reply with quote

What is a Scottish whinger. ??

All I know is that it is "supposed" to be a form of a "Scottish Knife, similar to a poniard, & having a blade 12.5 inches long.

Jack
View user's profile Send private message
A. Spanjer




Location: USA
Joined: 26 Apr 2009

Posts: 242

PostPosted: Thu 18 Feb, 2010 4:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hmmm... I've never heard of it, do you have any photos?

A google image search doesn't give any relevant results.

Na sir 's na seachain an cath.
View user's profile Send private message
GG Osborne





Joined: 21 Mar 2006

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 474

PostPosted: Thu 18 Feb, 2010 5:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jack....

The term usually refers (loosely) to a type of poniard dagger supposedly popular in the south and east of Scotland. Imagine a ballock knife without the characteristic protrubances but with short horizontal quillons ending in a decorative ball or acorn shape. The blade is generally fairly thin and triangular in profile, the surface being flat. I have never seen one engraved or adorned. It is definitly a thrusting and stabbing weapon and not very utilitarian in design. It seems to be - if any of the providence of the "whinger" can be presumed to be correct (see below)- a dressy alternative to the dirk carried by the more "civilized", English-speaking Lowland Scots in the same manner as any other person of the period would have carried a dagger or belt knife.

Frankly, I think this whole issue has more to do with Wallace's remark in "Scottish Swords and Dirks" than any other source I've ever seen as he pictures and example and in the text makes a reference to its Lowland origins. There are several notable makers of this design taken from Wallace, particularily Glenn McClain. I have two of Glenn's "whingers" in my collection, one with an ivory grip.

"Those who live by the sword...will usually die with a huge, unpaid credit card balance!"
View user's profile Send private message
Christopher Gregg




Location: Louisville, KY
Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Reading list: 2 books

Posts: 661

PostPosted: Thu 18 Feb, 2010 5:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I believe it is the type of Scottish knife that fellow forumite Justin King made here. It is the knife at the bottom of his attachment, with truncated quillons ending in flattened spheres, and a backed single edged blade. This knife is found in Wallace's book Scottish Edged Weapons (I think that's what it's called - my copy is misplaced). Here's the topic I found:

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...ht=whinger

Christopher Gregg

'S Rioghal Mo Dhream!
View user's profile Send private message
Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin


myArmoury Admin

PostPosted: Thu 18 Feb, 2010 6:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

From Culloden The swords and the sorrows: An exhibition to commemorate the Jacobite rising of 1745 and the Battle of Culloden 1746


 Attachment: 143.26 KB
whinger.jpg
Silver-mounted quillon dagger (whinger)

Culloden The swords and the sorrows: An exhibition to commemorate the Jacobite rising of 1745 and the Battle of Culloden 1746


.:. Visit my Collection Gallery :: View my Reading List :: View my Wish List :: See Pages I Like :: Find me on Facebook .:.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
GG Osborne





Joined: 21 Mar 2006

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 474

PostPosted: Thu 18 Feb, 2010 9:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan, thanks for posting the knife from "Swords and Sorrows." I have really wondered about that blade as it has seen really horrible abuse as evident from its condition and the grindings. I have a hunch that it is a broken sword blade reground and altered very crudely from a Johannes Wundes sword blade, hence the mention of the heads of "grotesque beasts" actually distorted crowned heads used as a touch-mark by Wundes. Any thoughts?
"Those who live by the sword...will usually die with a huge, unpaid credit card balance!"
View user's profile Send private message
Jack W. Englund




Location: WA State
Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Reading list: 6 books

Posts: 186

PostPosted: Fri 19 Feb, 2010 6:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

GG Osborne wrote:


Frankly, I think this whole issue has more to do with Wallace's remark in "Scottish Swords and Dirks" than any other source I've ever seen as he pictures and example and in the text makes a reference to its Lowland origins. There are several notable makers of this design taken from Wallace, particularily Glenn McClain. I have two of Glenn's "whingers" in my collection, one with an ivory grip.


Would you concider posting pictures of these ??

Jack
View user's profile Send private message
Thom R.




Location: Tucson
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Reading list: 30 books

Posts: 630

PostPosted: Fri 19 Feb, 2010 8:13 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

View user's profile Send private message
GG Osborne





Joined: 21 Mar 2006

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 474

PostPosted: Fri 19 Feb, 2010 8:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jack, if I had a digital camera, I'd be happy to, but, alas, I may be the only person on the planet without one!
"Those who live by the sword...will usually die with a huge, unpaid credit card balance!"
View user's profile Send private message
Thom R.




Location: Tucson
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Reading list: 30 books

Posts: 630

PostPosted: Fri 19 Feb, 2010 9:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I can't help much on the derivation of the term "Whinger" nor the reference to NE Scotland. I have two reproductions. Shorter one is by Glenn McClain, longer one is an antique dagger rehilted by Leo Todeschini. McClain dirk has wood handle and steel fittings, Tod's horn handle and cast silver.



View user's profile Send private message
JG Elmslie
Industry Professional



Location: Scotland
Joined: 18 Jun 2009
Reading list: 28 books

Posts: 254

PostPosted: Fri 19 Feb, 2010 7:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

well, a whinger, along with dialect words like "gurning", is someone who complains a lot.

in the context of a bladed weapon, I've never heard of it being used here in scotland whatsoever, in a single museum collection or in any published works here.

infact, I would go so far as to say that if you were to ask anyone here in scotland "what is a whinger?", 99.999% of the population would say "it's someone who complains about stuff".
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Danny Grigg





Joined: 17 Sep 2004

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 337

PostPosted: Fri 19 Feb, 2010 8:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's a reproduction on Flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/soldiers/2524017...646111017/


A quick search via google brings up:

cuinnsear
a dagger, sword; from the English whinger.

http://www.ceantar.org/Dicts/MB2/mb12.html

WHINGER, Whingar, s. A sort of hanger, which seems to have been used both at meals, as a knife, and in broils.

More at the following link:


http://books.google.com/books?id=xOk-AAAAYAAJ...mp;f=false


Hunting Weapons from the Middle Ages to the Twentieth Century By Howard L. Blackmore

http://books.google.com/books?id=XnnlOcLAnBIC...mp;f=false


http://swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=862240


Danny
View user's profile Send private message
Henrik Bjoern Boegh




Location: Aust Agder, Norway
Joined: 03 Mar 2004

Posts: 386

PostPosted: Sat 20 Feb, 2010 1:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

In the Incident of Rebellion painting by Morier, one of the Jacobites holds one of those behind his targe just as he would a dirk. But that's probably the only artwork where I've seen it.

Cheers,
Henrik

Constant and true.
View user's profile Send private message
Perry L. Goss




Location: Missouri
Joined: 15 May 2004
Likes: 2 pages

Posts: 109

PostPosted: Thu 04 Mar, 2010 4:38 am    Post subject: Scottish Whinger and an Edgefield, SC rev. war dirk         Reply with quote

Noticed this "dirk" this AM. Suspiciously like a whinger!

http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/


Interesting. Edgefield and the Savannah River area a very strong Hieland area from early on.

Thanks!

Scottish: Ballentine, Black, Cameron, Chisholm, Cunningham, Crawford, Grant, Jaffray, MacFarlane, MacGillivray, MacKay-Reay/Strathnaver, Munro, Robertson, Sinclair, Wallace

Irish/Welsh: Bodkin, Mendenhall, Hackworth

Swiss: Goss von Rothenfluh, Naff von Zurich und Solland von Appenzel
View user's profile Send private message
A. Spanjer




Location: USA
Joined: 26 Apr 2009

Posts: 242

PostPosted: Thu 04 Mar, 2010 5:04 am    Post subject: Re: Scottish Whinger and an Edgefield, SC rev. war dirk         Reply with quote

Perry L. Goss wrote:


Interesting. Edgefield and the Savannah River area a very strong Hieland area from early on.

Thanks!


Really? Are there any places in or near Savannah to see Scottish artifacts or do research?

Sorry for going off-topic, I'm asking because I usually visit Savannah at least once a year. I never really thought about the Scottish history in the area, up till now I've mostly focused on maritime history. Happy

Na sir 's na seachain an cath.
View user's profile Send private message
Christopher Gregg




Location: Louisville, KY
Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Reading list: 2 books

Posts: 661

PostPosted: Thu 04 Mar, 2010 7:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thom, your McClain "Whinger" looks nearly like mine! Yours is a bit more brown toned in the handle, whereas mine is pure jet black African Blackwood. Just LOVE Glenn's stuff!
Christopher Gregg

'S Rioghal Mo Dhream!
View user's profile Send private message
Perry L. Goss




Location: Missouri
Joined: 15 May 2004
Likes: 2 pages

Posts: 109

PostPosted: Thu 04 Mar, 2010 12:17 pm    Post subject: A Spanjer: Edgefield, SC whinger         Reply with quote

A. Spanjer:

Not sure, but I would try to establish contact with the Contemporary maker's blog author. There is the group at Darien, GA that I am aware of. The Edgefield, SC and Savannah River areas are old hang outs. Grant, McGivillary, Woods, Campbell, Munroe and others. MacKay of course!

The guys on the blog spot are generally older guys, they do not try to impress you with all their knowledge. It is just fun for them. Who knows what you can find out.

Thanks!
View user's profile Send private message
Walter Stockwell




Location: Campbell , CA
Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Reading list: 3 books

Posts: 41

PostPosted: Fri 05 Mar, 2010 10:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

JG Elmslie wrote:
well, a whinger, along with dialect words like "gurning", is someone who complains a lot.

in the context of a bladed weapon, I've never heard of it being used here in scotland whatsoever, in a single museum collection or in any published works here.

infact, I would go so far as to say that if you were to ask anyone here in scotland "what is a whinger?", 99.999% of the population would say "it's someone who complains about stuff".


The NMS in Edinburgh has a whinger or two in their collection. That picture from Wallace is probably one of them.

Walter
www.stockwellknives.com
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Harry J. Fletcher




Location: Lost in Texas
Joined: 19 Aug 2009
Likes: 9 pages
Reading list: 44 books

Posts: 260

PostPosted: Mon 08 Mar, 2010 9:18 pm    Post subject: Too Good To Resist         Reply with quote

At the risk of being censured I must say that this too good an opportunity to pass up. THese are really some WHINGER DINGERS!

Regards,

Harry

To Study The Edge of History
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Scottish whinger?
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum