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Maurizio D'Angelo




Location: Italy
Joined: 09 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Mon 15 Feb, 2010 5:18 pm    Post subject: mail linked back         Reply with quote

I have never seen this mail to the feet.
Seems to be linked back. You do not see shoes.
Does anyone know if there was a security under the feet of leather, wood, perhaps?
I'd like to know more.



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Maurizio
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Hadrian Coffin
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Location: Oxford, England
Joined: 03 Apr 2008

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PostPosted: Mon 15 Feb, 2010 6:55 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello,
Are you asking about the mail on the foot? Or about how the mail does up on the back of the calf and thigh? Chausses (the stocking-like mail you are seeing) are extremely common in medieval art. Chausses (the term hose is also occasionally used to describe this garment, although it is also used to describe tight fitting trousers with integral stockings) were one of the most common garments in medieval history; they were generally worn over braies.
This topic http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...mp;start=0 goes over mail chausses fairly well.
In general if you cant see a shoe it is because they have a leather sole, so your on the right track. Here are some images you might find interesting.



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Historia magistra vitae est
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Hadrian Coffin
Industry Professional



Location: Oxford, England
Joined: 03 Apr 2008

Posts: 398

PostPosted: Mon 15 Feb, 2010 6:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I found these mail chausses online; not the greatest example, but it should suffice.


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Sam Gordon Campbell




Location: Australia.
Joined: 16 Nov 2008

Posts: 678

PostPosted: Tue 16 Feb, 2010 1:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'd assume that, if they are the type of chausses' you're showing, then they may just strap on, or have a sort of toe holster.
If it were the chausses that cover the whole leg, I'd say they had an inbuilt, tough, leather sole.
That's just my thoughts though.



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Pretty much the look I'm aiming for...

Member of Australia's Stoccata School of Defence since 2008.
Host of Crash Course HEMA.
Founder of The Van Dieman's Land Stage Gladiators.
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Maurizio D'Angelo




Location: Italy
Joined: 09 Feb 2009
Likes: 3 pages
Reading list: 3 books

Posts: 649

PostPosted: Tue 16 Feb, 2010 5:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

are last photos of Hadrian and Sam.
My question is this:
1) The mail was on his shoes tied with strings under? So, it does not last long.
2) There weren't shoes, but leather underneath?
3) There was nothing underneath?
4) Why tie them behind his leg, leaving a non-protected? Other normal are whole.
For ease in dressing? Or the convenience of movement?

Ciao
Maurizio
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Eric S




Location: new orleans
Joined: 22 Nov 2009
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Posts: 805

PostPosted: Tue 16 Feb, 2010 7:53 am    Post subject: Re: mail linked back         Reply with quote

Maurizio D'Angelo wrote:
I have never seen this mail to the feet.
Seems to be linked back. You do not see shoes.
Does anyone know if there was a security under the feet of leather, wood, perhaps?
I'd like to know more.
......The Japanese (samurai) way using mail for foot protection, straw shoes or wari, chain sox or kusari tabi (chain sewn to leather), and chain shin guard or kusari suneate. Edo period 1800s.........................................................................
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Raffaele Vitale





Joined: 15 Dec 2005

Posts: 29

PostPosted: Tue 16 Feb, 2010 10:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

so... international forum, english speaking but we both are Italian reenactors Happy isn't funny?

well: about chausses de maille... vexata quaestio... but some references can be given:

1) Verone cathedral, half of 12th century, Roland statue. As you can see, there is a lacing system tying the chausses around the foot and a zig zag pattern on the ankle which probably is used for closing a slit (this slit is necessary for wearing the leggings because heels are too big for passing). There is no sole Happy


http://www.randyasplund.com/asplund/cb/chausse5.jpg


2) that's a kneeled statue from Hidelsheim dome... well, we can say that there is a "sole"

http://www.brandenburg1260.de/kettenbeinlinge4.jpg

what is sure is that, wearing opened chainmail leggings, you must wear shoes beneath but it is not sure if, when you wear completely closed chainmail leggings, you have also to wear civilian shoes or if these leggings have themselves a thick leather sole or if, finally, they have a leather sole but beneath you wear you civilian shoes too(you must consider that medieval turnshoes are lighter than those you see in reenactment events with a thick outer sole)



There is the Lindenburg chronicle of 13th century that talks about a knight which, in order to be lighter for running faster on battle field, he put off his chainmail leggings and so he run faster. Running without shoes? mhm i do not think so
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Maurizio D'Angelo




Location: Italy
Joined: 09 Feb 2009
Likes: 3 pages
Reading list: 3 books

Posts: 649

PostPosted: Tue 16 Feb, 2010 2:55 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks, Raphael and all other,
Now, for me it is less... vexata quaestio. Happy

Ciao
Maurizio
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