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Dennis W.




Location: Missouri
Joined: 19 Sep 2009

Posts: 9

PostPosted: Fri 05 Feb, 2010 10:17 pm    Post subject: German fencing sword         Reply with quote

Here is a neat item I picked up recently -- It had been hanging around a militaria dealer's back room for years. It is from one of the German fencing societies I suppose. It has an inscription so I assume it was a presentation piece from a competition or something of that nature. It was made by Alcoso. The incription reads (I think)

11-9-78
Hasso-Sassovia
su Nieburg Flr
Hassin su Giessen

Anybody ever see these inscribed like this?
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Max W.




Location: South Germany
Joined: 01 Mar 2009

Posts: 21

PostPosted: Sat 06 Feb, 2010 11:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Looks very much like a Korbschläger to me.

Quite like this one on this wonderful old postcard:



http://fencingclassics.wordpress.com/2009/01/.../#more-757

The image is property of J. Christoph Amberger, the blog owner, and he might most probably help you finding out more about your Schläger (literally: Beater).
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Artis Aboltins




PostPosted: Sat 06 Feb, 2010 12:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It looks like "rapier" often used by some student organisations as a ritual weapon and also as a fencing weapon for settling disputes (no longer than a few years ago two members of those groups in Germany ended up in hospital over a political disagreement that ended with both of them fightng in duel).
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Cornelius Engelhardt





Joined: 27 Feb 2006

Posts: 14

PostPosted: Sat 06 Feb, 2010 12:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes, that's a Schlaeger. To be more precise, it's a practice Schlaeger, not one used for sharp fencing (also obvious from the blade which is not sharpened).

From the picture, I think the name of the fraternity is Hasso-Nassovia. Ther are two fraternities with that name still active in Germany. One is a Corps and the other one is a catholic one.

Since this is a pratice weapon, it most probably used to belong to a member of Corps Hasso-Nassovia in Marburg. Catholic fraternities do not fence.

Nice one, it's pretty old as well. You don't see many old practice Schlaeger because they get beaten pretty fast. Looks pretty much like the ones I used.

Edit: do you have more pictures of the inscription?


Last edited by Cornelius Engelhardt on Sat 06 Feb, 2010 12:51 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Cornelius Engelhardt





Joined: 27 Feb 2006

Posts: 14

PostPosted: Sat 06 Feb, 2010 12:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Artis Aboltins wrote:
It looks like "rapier" often used by some student organisations as a ritual weapon and also as a fencing weapon for settling disputes (no longer than a few years ago two members of those groups in Germany ended up in hospital over a political disagreement that ended with both of them fightng in duel).


Actually, these days mensur fencing is specifically not done anymore to settle disputes as duelling is outlawed in Germany.

Sure that this was in Germany and not in Austria?
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Dennis W.




Location: Missouri
Joined: 19 Sep 2009

Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sat 06 Feb, 2010 4:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi. Thanks for all your replies -- I'll try and take a couple of better pictures of the inscription when the sun comes out

Dennis
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Artis Aboltins




PostPosted: Sat 06 Feb, 2010 11:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Cornelius Engelhardt wrote:
Artis Aboltins wrote:
It looks like "rapier" often used by some student organisations as a ritual weapon and also as a fencing weapon for settling disputes (no longer than a few years ago two members of those groups in Germany ended up in hospital over a political disagreement that ended with both of them fightng in duel).


Actually, these days mensur fencing is specifically not done anymore to settle disputes as duelling is outlawed in Germany.

Sure that this was in Germany and not in Austria?


Hmm, I am fairly sure it said Germany in media here, but, there can be two things - journalists are not really known for the accuracy of their statements, and as it was some time ago I might be wrong too - remembered the case mainly as it said that those where members of fraternities who settled the political diferencies in a duel. Members of fraternities here also train in fencing, although it is somewhat diferent from other systems I am aware off - 1)thrusts are not allowed at all, even in training gear 2) main target for slashes are arms and face.
It seems, in fact, to be a rather interesting case of the Art branching off in it's own individual direction, diferent from both classical fencing and modern sports fencing.
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Dennis W.




Location: Missouri
Joined: 19 Sep 2009

Posts: 9

PostPosted: Mon 08 Feb, 2010 9:27 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi these are about as good as I could get of the inscription
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Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team


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Location: Birmingham, Alabama
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PostPosted: Mon 08 Feb, 2010 10:12 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Read more about Mensurfechten here:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mensur_%28Studentenverbindung%29

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Cornelius Engelhardt





Joined: 27 Feb 2006

Posts: 14

PostPosted: Tue 09 Feb, 2010 9:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Allright, the inscription reads:

Hasso-Nassovia zu Marburg i/l Hassia zu Giessen

i/l is an abbreviation for "ihrer lieben" which translates (in this context) as "to its esteemed"

Hassia Giessen is also a German Corps.

So, this makes it a Schlaeger, given and dedicated to the Corps Hassia Giessen by the Corps Hasso-Nassovia Marburg.

Such presents are not unusal and can be given for several reasons. E.g. as a present when doing a visit or as a thank you for something.

Since this is a practice weapon it could be a thank you for doing something related to fencing (maybe providing a second of fencing equipment). Quite often, those inscriptions also include the reason for the gift. Is there an inscription on the inside maybe?

Here's a link to the English article about Mensur fensing:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mensur
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