Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Type XVIIId Project Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Likes: 10 pages
Reading list: 13 books

Spotlight topics: 7
Posts: 5,908

PostPosted: Fri 05 Feb, 2010 12:04 pm    Post subject: Type XVIIId Project         Reply with quote

I just got one of these to see if the Tinker blades represent a good option for projects:

http://kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=OH2402

For $105, shipped, (KOA) I got what I would tentatively call a Type XVIIId blade. My first impression is surprise at the thickness of the stock. In this respect it compares favorably to the blade of my A&A Town Guard sword, which is a seriously intimidating field weapon. I don't have calipers on hand but it looks to me like the tang and thickest part of the blade are ~.25", with distal taper (esp. below the forte) to an acute point. As you would expect, it's a very stiff blade, thicker and stiffer than anything I've seen from Windlass. The edges of the lower half of the blade are quite sharp. The edges of the upper half are similar to the stock Windlass edge.

I work almost exclusively with Windlass blades, which tend to be relatively thin and not acutely pointed (which is not necessarily a-historical, depending on the overall design of the sword). For me, this Hanwei-Tinker blade is a bit frightening.

I'm not sure how I should mount this robust blade. It's short enough for a riding sword but strong enough for a field sword. There's enough tang to make a bastard sword, though I think I'd probably cut off the welded-on threaded rod. XVIIId is typically a single-hand sword, but I think you'd need plenty of weight in the pommel to mount this for single-hand use. A complex guard would help, too. I have some faceted scent-stopper pommels and a guard with double side-rings, but I don't currently have any ideas for mounting. I think it could be mounted in a multitude of styles, including as a plain infantry sword of the early 17th c. Hmmm....and I also have a buckler project in mind. Could make a nice colonial pairing.

Whatcha reckon? Suggestions? Ideas?



 Attachment: 86.77 KB
koa.gif


-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Luke Zechman




Location: Lock Haven Pennsylvania
Joined: 18 Jan 2009

Posts: 278

PostPosted: Fri 05 Feb, 2010 12:27 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Perhaps you could look at what Hanwei has done with their complete sword and put your own spin on it. Use similar dimensions and sizes (pommel, cross etc) but make your own combination of actual furniture. This would allow you to be creative, without having to worry about balance as much. That wouldn't be as interesting as mounting it as a single handed sword, but it would avoid the balancing hurdles.

What are your impressions of quality on these blades Sean?

I have considered in the past getting my hands on one and making all the fittings. Good luck, and let us know where you go with it.
View user's profile Send private message
Toke Krebs Niclasen




Location: Copenhagen
Joined: 31 Jan 2010

Posts: 55

PostPosted: Fri 05 Feb, 2010 12:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

In my somewhat amateurish opinion the weight is rather important for whether it should be fitted as 1 or 1 hand sword, it sounds like it would be too heavy for 1 hand.
Also it seems to me that the longer handle of 1 hand would enable you to balance it with a smaller/lighter pommel than a 1 handed and thereby keep the overall weight down.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Likes: 10 pages
Reading list: 13 books

Spotlight topics: 7
Posts: 5,908

PostPosted: Fri 05 Feb, 2010 12:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

My initial impression is only from handling it in the confines of a (parked) car, but it seems to be of good quality--even finish (coarse satin?), proper heat treatment, no sharp corners at tang,plenty of tang to work with in length, width and thickness. Compare it to buying one of the better Windlass Deal of the Day swords for, say, $140 shipped. If you're building a supply of parts or like the overall sword, go Windlass. If you know you'll have to assemble your project piece-by-piece, the H-T seems like a better choice. If all of the H-Ts are as robust as this one, that's another important consideration. If the type you like calls for a strong diamond section, Windlass generally isn't a good choice. This particular H-T is impressive in that regard. There's a longsword blade, too, and KOH offers a rebuilt H-T bastard sword that looks fantastic (with scabbard, it's about $370).

The more I think about it, the more I think that this blade would make a nice infantry sword of ca. 1600, English or German. I have that two-ring guard and could get a nice acorn pommel from Darkwood Armoury. See the sword in the hand of a desperate Virginia colonist in a tableau at the Frazier International History Museum in Louisvill, KY:



 Attachment: 190.95 KB
colonist2.gif


 Attachment: 155.62 KB
colonist.gif


-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)


Last edited by Sean Flynt on Mon 08 Feb, 2010 7:31 am; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Likes: 10 pages
Reading list: 13 books

Spotlight topics: 7
Posts: 5,908

PostPosted: Fri 05 Feb, 2010 1:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Toke Krebs Niclasen wrote:
In my somewhat amateurish opinion the weight is rather important for whether it should be fitted as 1 or 1 hand sword, it sounds like it would be too heavy for 1 hand.
Also it seems to me that the longer handle of 1 hand would enable you to balance it with a smaller/lighter pommel than a 1 handed and thereby keep the overall weight down.


It's not amateurish at all. Happy Overall weight and distribution of weight will the key factors in my choice. The first thing I'll do when I get this thing out on my workbench is put a spare pommel on it and see how it feels and where the point of balance is. It just might be o.k. for an Elizabethan or Jacobean infantry sword.

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Likes: 10 pages
Reading list: 13 books

Spotlight topics: 7
Posts: 5,908

PostPosted: Fri 05 Feb, 2010 1:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Or something like this:


 Attachment: 90.35 KB
eMuseumPlus-2.jpg


-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin


myArmoury Admin

PostPosted: Fri 05 Feb, 2010 1:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sean Flynt wrote:
Or something like this:


That's the direction I was thinking as well, but it all depends on the width of the blade and the rate of distal taper to be suited for that.

How long is the blade? How wide at the ricasso area? Can you roughly estimate the ratio of distal taper? And last of all (I'm asking a lot!), what is its weight?

.:. Visit my Collection Gallery :: View my Reading List :: View my Wish List :: See Pages I Like :: Find me on Facebook .:.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Likes: 10 pages
Reading list: 13 books

Spotlight topics: 7
Posts: 5,908

PostPosted: Fri 05 Feb, 2010 1:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Length (`33") width and taper should be right. Not sure about weight, but some of these things were pretty thick at the tang, as in the case below. With the right pommel I think it might work. I'll know more tonight.


 Attachment: 78.4 KB
eMuseumPlus.jpg


 Attachment: 88.66 KB
eMuseumPlus-1.jpg


-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Likes: 10 pages
Reading list: 13 books

Spotlight topics: 7
Posts: 5,908

PostPosted: Mon 08 Feb, 2010 7:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I tried some loose bits on the blade just to get a sense for how the piece would balance as a single-hand sword. Turns out, I think you could do worse than using the (modified) guard and pommel of the Windlass "15th century longsword". I prefer the more globular pommel, but this ain't half bad. Ferrules and fish skin, ferrules and filets or a twisted wire binding with turks' heads.

The blackening and gilding is by the sword's original owner, Christopher Finneman. Good idea! Might steal it, since my own black riding sword of this period is set aside for a new owner.

Whatever I do for a pommel, I really do like the guard, minus the inside ring, as shown in the crude "artist's conception" image below. It's not overbuilt and clunky like so many Windlass guards. I'd bend it downward, of course, and change the section, eliminate the decorative bits and add new filing, etc. Balance as shown is ~3" below the guard.

I REALLY like this blade. In fact, I just ordered the H-T longsword blade because I'm so impressed with this one.

Big Grin



 Attachment: 186.35 KB
ridingsword.gif


 Attachment: 183.14 KB
ridingsword2.gif


 Attachment: 203.75 KB
cruderider.gif


-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Thom R.




Location: Tucson
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Reading list: 30 books

Posts: 630

PostPosted: Mon 08 Feb, 2010 7:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sean Flynt wrote:

I REALLY like this blade. In fact, I just ordered the H-T longsword blade because I'm so impressed with this one.

Big Grin


My impression is the blades in the H-T line are all a very good deal for the money but the furniture is a bit bare bones. You might also like the fullered bastard sword, its very different from the one you have. tr
View user's profile Send private message
Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Likes: 10 pages
Reading list: 13 books

Spotlight topics: 7
Posts: 5,908

PostPosted: Mon 08 Feb, 2010 7:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yeah, the fullered Type XVIIIa or XVIa is the one I just ordered. I already know how I want to use that one. Big Grin

I'm not crazy about the stock furniture, either, especially the screw-on pommel. But look at the modified H-T bastard sword kit somebody is offering through KOA:



 Attachment: 151.74 KB
koa.gif


-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Likes: 10 pages
Reading list: 13 books

Spotlight topics: 7
Posts: 5,908

PostPosted: Wed 10 Feb, 2010 2:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

FWIW, I just got the H-T longsword blade. I'd call it a XVIa, and it's impressive, especially considering the price. Same thick and generous tang as the bastard sword blade. It's not a war sword--acutely pointed but not stiff enough for thrusting into gaps in armour, it seems to me. I think it'd be a good choice for a 15th c. "civilian" longsword blade, maybe in the general direction of the famous Brescia sword, but without the complex section. That might be how I mount it, in fact. So, that's two-for-two with the H-T blades.
-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
J.D. Crawford




Location: Toronto
Joined: 25 Dec 2006

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,611

PostPosted: Wed 10 Feb, 2010 2:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sean, I was also very impressed with these 'Tinker' blades from a functional standpoint. It's nearly impossible to find such stiff blades with such a strong distal taper at this price point. I had the Norman sword for a while but have traded it away. I was less impressed with the finish - very obvious grind marks outside of the fuller. This seems to be a Hanwei thing, so isn't it the case for these bastard blades as well? But I guess if you don't like the finish, it would be pretty easy for you to fix considering the far more difficult things you do with sword components. -JD
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Ken Speed





Joined: 09 Oct 2006

Posts: 656

PostPosted: Thu 11 Feb, 2010 11:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

J.D. Crawford wrote, "... I was also very impressed with these 'Tinker' blades from a functional standpoint. It's nearly impossible to find such stiff blades with such a strong distal taper at this price point.I had the Norman sword for a while but have traded it away. I was less impressed with the finish - very obvious grind marks outside of the fuller."



Well, I have the Hanwei Tinker Viking sword and while the finish can't compare with my Albion sword I think the grinding and finish on the blade I have is very good on the faces but not very well done in the fuller itself. I wonder how much of this work is done by hand at Hanwei. I bought the Hanwei Viking sword as a project and my thinking is that if I were to antique the blade the variations in the fuller would add an illusion of authenticity to the completed sword.


While I only have the Albion and the Hanwei for comparison purposes I do think that the Hanwei blade is a very good value.
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Type XVIIId Project
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum