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Adam D. Kent-Isaac




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PostPosted: Tue 26 Jan, 2010 7:18 am    Post subject: What kind of helmet is this? Did it actually exist?         Reply with quote

Outfit4Events.com sells a not-bad looking helmet which looks like a hybrid of a close helmet and a houndskull! Here's a pic:



It's pretty cool. But does this sharp, down-turned look have a historical basis? I have seen early 16th century armours of the Landshut school with a slightly similar look to the visor. This one, though, has a visor that's all one piece, like a great bascinet, and I've never seen an extant example of a close helm or armet with such a pronounced and downward-angled profile.

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Evan Jones




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PostPosted: Tue 26 Jan, 2010 7:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I would say from armors I've seen it has historical basis. The visor has actually two parts, you can see the pin for the visor where it can be lifted up while keeping the integrated bevor closed right inside the lower crook of the "E". While it may not be a replica of one distinct helmet, considering that there were much more flamboyant designs during this period, I'd say it isn't something someone just thought up.
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Adam D. Kent-Isaac




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PostPosted: Tue 26 Jan, 2010 8:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What I meant is the visor and bevor are integrated - unlike the more common close helmets where you could lift the visor to see better, but leave the bevor down. I think I might be getting my terminology mixed up (upper + lower bevor?) I'll just show a picture to demonstrate what I mean:

Like on this (also not-bad-looking) helmet from the same site:




On that other helmet all you can do is lift the whole thing up, which makes it similar to a great bascinet.

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Allan Senefelder
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PostPosted: Tue 26 Jan, 2010 9:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Found these all in the antique armour album here
http://myArmoury.com/albums/displayimage.php?...fullsize=1
http://myArmoury.com/albums/displayimage.php?...fullsize=1
http://myArmoury.com/albums/displayimage.php?...fullsize=1
http://myArmoury.com/albums/displayimage.php?...fullsize=1
http://myArmoury.com/albums/displayimage.php?...fullsize=1
http://myArmoury.com/albums/displayimage.php?...fullsize=1

which consist of a single rather than two piece visor like the in the first post . The third helmet is of not disimilar basic lines to the helmet in the first post.
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Adam D. Kent-Isaac




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PostPosted: Tue 26 Jan, 2010 10:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The last link shows a helmet which seems to have a separate upper visor (with the lifting peg sticking through the little notch in the lower one) like a typical close helmet. The third helmet is, indeed, so similar to the one I originally posted that I would almost think it might have been the model for it. The eye slits, though, are not as down-turned. It is those down-turned eye slits that really make it look like a houndskull.

I would say it is a very German style, like these. Note the characteristic downward sweep between the eyeslits and the end of the upper bevor. It's quite an elegant look.




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Allan Senefelder
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PostPosted: Tue 26 Jan, 2010 11:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
I would say it is a very German style, like these


Not at all, it is actually a function of date. Two piece visors occure later in the century and are to be found all around Europe, the examples I posted are all 1510-1530's. I've owned original examples that were English and French respectively. The trend twords two piece visors continued into the 17th century, but with the disappearence of the lance from the battle field, thus obviating the need for the deflecting angle of the prow formed visor, one piece visors became common again as tottenkopff type close helmets became the norm.


Quote:
The last link shows a helmet which seems to have a separate upper visor (with the lifting peg sticking through the little notch in the lower one) like a typical close helmet


You are correct, I grabbed the wrong link. Theres plenty of one piece visors out there they were as normal as two piece visors would become. I currently own an original with a one piece visor myself http://www.merctailor.com/originals.php?original_pk=123
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Adam D. Kent-Isaac




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PostPosted: Tue 26 Jan, 2010 12:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

By "German type" I meant more the aesthetic lines of the helmet, not specifically whether the visor was one piece or two piece, but the curve between the eyeslits and the tip of the upper bevor. I made this fairly crude drawing to illustrate the superficial differences (as I understand them) between the lines of the different styles of helmet:



I know it says "German" but obviously there are different German styles - I am just not certain whether that last one is unique to one area or not. But I am guessing it's a Landshut style. (The Augsburg style is more similar to the Greenwich and Milanese style). Here is another Landshut helmet exhibiting the same shape - this one clearly has a separated visor.


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