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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jan, 2010 4:10 am    Post subject: Modifying the H/T Viking         Reply with quote

I have a Hanwei Tinker Viking and I'm very satisfied with it but I would like to modify it a bit to give it more authentic feeling. I'm thinking of rounding the tip a bit, separating the upper guard and pommel, but I would like to see some suggestions about the blade. What can I do to blade to make it look more authentic without changing balance or heat treat. Also, has anyone tried to darken its fittings? I don't want to blue them but they look to white to me right now.
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Ken Speed





Joined: 09 Oct 2006

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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jan, 2010 6:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I just succumbed to a very attractive price at Kult of Athena and bought one as a project sword. I must confess that I really don't need more projects but then not all decisions are rational! Certainly not mine!

My tentative plan is to drastically change the hilt. I want to shorten the grip and change it to bone ( I think), change the pommel to a Brazil nut pommel and change the crossguard to either a gaddjhilt, a shorter straight cross guard or to a slightly downward curved crossguard somewhat similar to the ones on the Albion Thegn or Jarl.

I'm starting to do some research to see if any of these combinations have any historical precedent, although I have no aim to copy any existing sword.

I must confess that I haven't really given a lot of thought to alterations to the balance. While I haven't taken the sword outside ( New England winter!) and cut any milk jugs or squash I think that the balance on the HT Viking seems to suit me and feels a lot like the Albion Knud I own although my opinions are strictly subjective and I don't have a lot of experience with swords.. I guess the modifications i intend to undertake will make the sword a bit blade heavier. I, for one, have no intention of grinding any length from the blade.

While I'm generally happy with the sword, I would like to eliminate the wavy surface I see in/on the sword blade but I don't know if this is possible or even desirable.

I doubt my thoughts have helped you much but at least you know there's someone else trying to find answers to similar questions. I, too, would welcome some advice.
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jan, 2010 8:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What you want is quite similar to H/T Norman or this original: http://www.myArmoury.com/view.html?features/pic_spotx08.jpg but without the hole in the blade. Wink
I wouldn't mind it to be a little blade heavier but I don't want to change the shape of the pommel, just cut it in two pieces. But maybe shortening the tang would push the balance a bit forward even with a piece of blade going away when rounding the tip. But i'm more worried about harmonics than PoB. As I use this sword with handshake grip, the shorter grip is also more practical to me, look at this picture:

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Ken Speed





Joined: 09 Oct 2006

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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jan, 2010 10:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

So....you think I should leave out the hole? Big Grin

I suppose I'd have done as well and gotten by more cheaply if I'd bought the Norman instead. Ideally I wanted to "build' a prototypical Viking sword but learned after I bought it that the blade is typical of a later type X sword than I'd hoped. I don't want to makes something that is so anachronistic that it looks stupid so I'm going to be doing some research to see what can be done that is appropriate to the blade type.

I think I agree with the criticism I've heard that the grip is too long. i have fairly large hands and I have more room than I need to grip this sword comfortably in a "hammer' grip. I tried the handshake grip as in your photograph and found it extremely uncomfortable with that pommel. I find the Brazil nut pommel of the Knud much more comfortable for that grip. Aesthetically, I think the grip itself (on the HT Viking) is much too square, it isn't uncomfortable but would look more authentic, I think, if it were an oval in section rather than a slightly rounded rectangle.

I guess I need to do some studying before I do anything to this sword. I need to make the scabbard for the Knud first in any case!
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J.D. Crawford




Location: Toronto
Joined: 25 Dec 2006

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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jan, 2010 5:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Luka,

I understand what you are trying to do and what you are worried about. I would also want to be cautious.

To answer one of your questions, I tried using 'gun blue' to darken the pommel on the H-T Norman sword and it had no effect (except on the peen). I don't know much about metal, but I assume this means the pommels on these H-T swords are either made of some unusual alloy or plated with something.

Maybe it is worth finding out more about the construction of that pommel before cutting it up. As a cautionary tail, I ruined one (entirely different) sword when I tried to dismantle the pommel and found out it had a strange construction.

I see what you mean about the handle length. Its interesting how a short grip actually becomes preferable when one switches over completely to a handshake grip on these swords. Some of those super-short Viking grips start making sense. But then there is the risk you mention of putting those harmonics out of whack (given the emphasis that H-T has put on harmonic balancing). Presumably shortening the handle would move the harmonic node slightly away from the cross, up the blade...unless you compensated by lightening the pommel? (Which of course would shift the PoB more).

This kind of stuff is out of my league. If I were you I would also want to get some good advice before ruining this nice sword. As you know there are some 'myArmoury' people who are incredibly skilled at re-working swords, but if it were me I would like to get advice from someone familiar with the specific construction methods used on this particular line....

-JD
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Hadrian Coffin
Industry Professional



Location: Oxford, England
Joined: 03 Apr 2008

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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jan, 2010 6:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello,
One cool thing to do would be to create an artificial pattern weld by etching, check out this topic for details. http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...adius+etch

Cutting the pommel into two pieces is going to be a more difficult project. In my opinion I don't really see the point, on two piece pommels the end of the tang is usually peened to the upper guard. The pommel is then riveted over the peen onto the upper guard, see example http://www.templ.net/pics-making/hilts/photo02v.jpg If you cut the pommel in half you will still have to peen on top of the pommel, or you will leave a large cavity. Since it isn't going to look right any way, why bother? Alternatively you can put fake rivets on the under side of the upper guard, Albion used to do this on the Squire Line viking. It will look the same without having to go through the work of cutting the pommel in two.
Cheers,
Hadrian



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JE Sarge
Industry Professional



PostPosted: Tue 19 Jan, 2010 6:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have a few of the H/T swords. Chemical blues don't work because I believe the metal has a pretty high chromium content to make it more resistant to tarnish/rust. You will find that heat-bluing the furniture works just fine, or at least it has on my own H/Ts. Happy
J.E. Sarge
Crusader Monk Sword Scabbards and Customizations
www.crusadermonk.com

"But lack of documentation, especially for such early times, is not to be considered as evidence of non-existance." - Ewart Oakeshott
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Hadrian Coffin
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Location: Oxford, England
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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jan, 2010 6:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I didn't mention, rounding the tip should be very easy. Just use a couple of hand files, it is easier than you may think.
Cheers

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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Wed 20 Jan, 2010 2:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ken, it's interesting that you are not comfortable with this pommel, when I hold it like in the picture, it's secure and comfortable.

J.D and JE Sarge, I wasn't thinking about cold blue, I thought about heating it a bit to get more gray or maybe a bit goldish color. About the tang shortening, harmonics on this sword are excellent so I really don't want to mess them. If I do this I'll probably have to change something else too, grip or pommel to keep more or less same harmonics.

Hadrian, I might do that fake pattern welding, it looks nice. About the two piece pommel, most pommels are attached to upper guards with rivets and upper guard peened to the tang. But, according to Petersen and Pierce, Types A, B and E (maybe even some others, I'm not sure) have two piece pommel but both parts just put on the tang and peened over the top of the pommel, no riveting to the upper guard.
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Ken Speed





Joined: 09 Oct 2006

Posts: 656

PostPosted: Wed 20 Jan, 2010 4:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Luka, I guess that's why there are so many different styles of pommels and grips. In order for that pommel to be comfortable for my hands the square edge on its grip end would have to be eased.

I'll be checking the pet store bone bin the next time I shop for food for my cat. I'm sure she'll be puzzled when I bring home a big piece of cow bone. I'm planning on experimenting to see how bone takes the dyes I use for wood. I'm sort of looking forward to that.

The imitation pattern welding and piling sound like intriguing ideas but would they be appropriate for this type X blade? I was under the impression that blades were monosteel construction by the time this blade style came along. As I said, I'm somewhat confused and concerned about making something that is at least fairly close to being period appropriate.

I have a question about mild steel. I visited some on line metal sellers and I see there are many types of mild steel. Is there a type that is better (probably softer?)for fairly low tech grinding and filing into a pommel and crossguard?
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
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Posts: 2,264

PostPosted: Wed 20 Jan, 2010 5:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ken Speed wrote:

The imitation pattern welding and piling sound like intriguing ideas but would they be appropriate for this type X blade? I was under the impression that blades were monosteel construction by the time this blade style came along. As I said, I'm somewhat confused and concerned about making something that is at least fairly close to being period appropriate.


If I round the tip it would look pretty much like blades of 9th or maybe even 10th century which were still pattern welded.
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